CHRISTMASS time estimation

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Hi, when it was about time for the birth of our Lord, there were shepherds keeping sheep in the fields but if you think about the weather at this time in the middle east and Israel particularly, we would expect low temperatures and snow how was this possible? Is there a mis-estimation somewhere?
 
I have always assumed shepards need to watch flocks of sheep no matter what time of year or season. Don’t know. But, I believe the common school of thought is that the date of the birth of Jesus was not known and December 25 was chosen to discourage pagan celebrations of the winter soltice, which were popular in Rome.

During our Christmas Morning Mass, part of the homily was explaining that normally the father of a child would not be with the mother at the time of the birth and a messenger would be sent to announce the birth to the father and he would announce it to the community. The true father of Jesus was in Heaven, not Josheph. So, He sent angels announcing the birth of Jesus to the shephards. In this way, it was that the Father announced the birth of His Son. I don’t know if I am telling this correctly, but I finally understood from this that there was a reason for the shepards to be there and to receive a message from the angel.
 
The date of Jesus birth is not known.
It is widely believed that the birth of Jesus did not occur on the 25 of December. It was more likely in the spring from what I have heard.
The date we use is simply the one selected by the Church to celebrate the nativity of Jesus.

Peace
James
 
The date was chosen by the Roman Catholic Church for various reasons, the winter solstice and the common sense of replacing a pagan holiday with a Christian Holy Day being one. If you look to animal husbandry for an answer then lambing in the free range environment of the time would have been in early Spring. You usually don’t need more than one Shepard to tend a flock unless an event (like lambing)is occurring, therefore the need for Shepard’s. Where I am from they popped out in the Spring and as soon as they were hopping about you “docked them” (put a band on their little tails, which would restrict blood flow and the little appendage would fall off -its done for sanitary reasons).🙂
 
The date was chosen by the Roman Catholic Church for various reasons, the winter solstice and the common sense of replacing a pagan holiday with a Christian Holy Day being one. If you look to animal husbandry for an answer then lambing in the free range environment of the time would have been in early Spring. You usually don’t need more than one Shepard to tend a flock unless an event (like lambing)is occurring, therefore the need for Shepard’s. Where I am from they popped out in the Spring and as soon as they were hopping about you “docked them” (put a band on their little tails, which would restrict blood flow and the little appendage would fall off -its done for sanitary reasons).🙂
And doesn’t this make sense spiritually that the “Lamb of God” should be born around this same time. 👍

Peace
James
 
Hi, when it was about time for the birth of our Lord, there were shepherds keeping sheep in the fields but if you think about the weather at this time in the middle east and Israel particularly, we would expect low temperatures and snow how was this possible? Is there a mis-estimation somewhere?
There is no misestimation because there was no attempt to do so in the first place.

December 25 has never been thought of as being Jesus actual day of birth any more than most other liturgical feast days of the Lord (excepting Easter, Ascension, and Pentecost which are derived from actual dates associated with Jewish Passover).
 
Hi, when it was about time for the birth of our Lord, there were shepherds keeping sheep in the fields but if you think about the weather at this time in the middle east and Israel particularly, we would expect low temperatures and snow how was this possible? Is there a mis-estimation somewhere?
I don’t know about the exact date or why it is important at all but a quick check on the weather forecast for Bethlehem for the next 10 days shows.
Sun
Partly Cloudy
55°45°
Mon
Clear
55°46°
Tue
Mostly Cloudy
59°45°
Wed
Clear
59°45°
Thu
Clear
55°45°
Fri
Partly Cloudy
57°43°
Sat
Partly Cloudy
57°52°
Sun
Mostly Cloudy
57°48°
That is for mid January.

And depending on where the shepherds were it could be significantly warmer. So I think it sounds like pretty nice sheep tending weather to me.

While we can go round and round about the actual date. (Which could very well be the 25th of Dec.🤷) I think logic and common sense should apply. Who says there is snow? Though the St Andrew Christmas Novena does say that it was “piercing cold” at midnight in Bethlehem. But that is pretty subjective as well. In a cave at midnight temps in the 40s might be “piercing cold” to a Nazarean."
 
John the Baptist said ‘I shall decrease so that He may increase’. Therefor, they decided to put St John the Baptist day on June 24th since it was what they believed was the longest day of the year and the days would decrease. Jesus’s birthday was put on the shortest day of the year and then the days would increase. This was done at a time when the measuring system was not adequate (since Dec 21 is the shortest day). But they did their best to estimate the shortest day
 
John the Baptist said ‘I shall decrease so that He may increase’. Therefor, they decided to put St John the Baptist day on June 24th since it was what they believed was the longest day of the year and the days would decrease. Jesus’s birthday was put on the shortest day of the year and then the days would increase. This was done at a time when the measuring system was not adequate (since Dec 21 is the shortest day). But they did their best to estimate the shortest day
How do you know that at the time that happened that the “measuring system was not accurate” When was this? Even before the time of Christ dates and celestial events were not only accuate but well recorded. I cannot recall a time since Christ that Romans, Christians, israelites etc. Would not have known the exact shortest day of the year. Jewish feasts were tied to these events and pagans had them down pat as well.🤷

The problem is that some people make blanket statements about history without really thinking it through. That has happened twice on this thread. Once about the the climate of israel. And now again about the apparent accuracy of dates according to celestial events. I will tell you, as a person who appreciates history, that the ancient peoples, and even the early Christians were more adept than most high schoolers nowadays when it came to these things.:rolleyes:

Off by a few days??? I sincerly doubt that!
 
The end of December was a perfect time for celebration in most areas of Europe. At that time of year, most cattle were slaughtered so they would not have to be fed during the winter. For many, it was the only time of year when they had a supply of fresh meat. In addition, most wine and beer made during the year was finally fermented and ready for drinking.

Christmas is both a sacred religious holidaybuzz and a worldwide cultural and commercial phenomenon.
 
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