Christ's eternal Sonship

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yet JW’s claim that Christ was not an eternal son of God but became the son of God on a later date thus created.

If Catholics are to believe that Christ, as being part of the trinity, should be eternal, no beginning-no end, how come-- “in the beginning was the word” does it suggest that Christ did have a beginning? as well as Christ being the “firstborn of all creation”??
 
Fidei said:
yet JW’s claim that Christ was not an eternal son of God but became the son of God on a later date thus created.

If Catholics are to believe that Christ, as being part of the trinity, should be eternal, no beginning-no end, how come-- “in the beginning was the word” does it suggest that Christ did have a beginning? as well as Christ being the “firstborn of all creation”??
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The Creed clarifies this.
 
Fidei said:
yet JW’s claim that Christ was not an eternal son of God but became the son of God on a later date thus created.

If Catholics are to believe that Christ, as being part of the trinity, should be eternal, no beginning-no end, how come-- “in the beginning was the word” does it suggest that Christ did have a beginning? as well as Christ being the “firstborn of all creation”??
Click to expand...
Jesus is the beginning. " I am the Alpha and the Omega"

He can’t be a creation if everything that begins begins in Him. " In the beginning God created."
 
Fidei said:
yet JW’s claim that Christ was not an eternal son of God but became the son of God on a later date thus created.

If Catholics are to believe that Christ, as being part of the trinity, should be eternal, no beginning-no end, how come-- “in the beginning was the word” does it suggest that Christ did have a beginning? as well as Christ being the “firstborn of all creation”??
Click to expand...
Are the JWs getting to you?? This seems dangerous . . .

For Jn 1:1, I’ve always thought of this referring to the beginning of the creation of our universe, which makes sense because v. 3 speaks of the Word being the Creator of all things.

As has been pointed out numerous times on these forums, the verse reads as quoted: firstborn, not first-created. They try to make Christ into some sort of lesser divinity that existed before all of the “other” creation, this is utterly destroyed by Scripture which is seen when God repeatedly says that there is no other God besides Himself. Christ, as the second Person of the Trinity has existed forever. Jesus, the man, existed from c. 5-6 BC (possibly 2-3 BC, depending on who you talk to) to c. 30 AD.

If the Jehovah’s Witnesses are making you doubt your faith, I would suggest not studying with them any longer and read up on your own faith. For apologetics giving lots of proof for Christ’s divinity, I would start here.
 
No to worry! im an apologist myself (practicing—anyway)🙂

I just want simple explanation for these verses, if you people wont mind, because these are bugging me, i know scripture can’t contradict itself, what im asking is how do these verses fit into our belief of Trinity. I know from scripture that Christ is Begotten–not made–Christ is the word who is God and became flesh— and that he is also our LORD and God (doubting Thomas’s statement), and that he is I AM.
 
Fidei said:
yet JW’s claim that Christ was not an eternal son of God but became the son of God on a later date thus created.

If Catholics are to believe that Christ, as being part of the trinity, should be eternal, no beginning-no end, how come-- “in the beginning was the word” does it suggest that Christ did have a beginning? as well as Christ being the “firstborn of all creation”??
Click to expand...
Not directly answering your question. But: … background re the Trinity …

Christ has two natures: He has His divine nature and a human nature. He is fully God AND fully Man. . As God, Hes God the Son; the second Person of the Blessed Trinity. As Man, He has a human body and an immortal spiritual soul. As a person, Hes God the Son.

God is Spirit: a spirit is intellect and will, and doesnt occupy 3-dimensional space, is utterly simple, and so cant be divided into its component parts because it doesnt have any. We cant say that a spirit (including our own) is anywhere, except in the sense of “wherever” its intellect and will are focussed.

The Father is perfect, infinite, eternal. His self knowledge is perfect, infinite, eternal because He knows Himself totally. His self knowledge is God the Son; literally God because everything that the Father is is contained in His self knowledge (remember that spirit is utterly simple). Hes not a separate "god" though, because He relies on the Father for His existence. Hes generated by the Father IN ETERNITY. At the same time, the Father cant exist without the Son. Sort of an analogy: Our thoughts cant exist independantly of ourselves, and we cant exist without thoughts ...... wed be either vegies or very dead.
The son possesses the Godhead in its entirety because, as already mentioned, all that the Father is is in His self knowledge.

As mentioned by an earlier poster, the Nicene Creed covers it: “God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God. Begotten, not made; of one Being with the Father; through Whom (the Father`s Wisdom and Knowledge) all things were made.”.

The prelude to St. John`s Gospel covers it, as well. BUT:
The Jehovah Wittnesses “New World Translation” of the Bible is full of distortions: they would already have hit you with “And the Word was A god” Bets taken?!

You started a thread on 23/1/10 “The light of truth will shine forth slowly”. “I will give you more knowledge in due time.” That`s a terrible translation! Because they reject the Trinity, they deny that the Holy Spirit is the Third Person.

Dont be conned regarding the word "person: On Page 41 of one of their books titled: "You Can Live Forever in Paradise on Earth" (published in 1982), theres an illustration of the disciples in the Upper Room with the tongues of fire over their heads. The caption reads: “How could the holy spirit be a person, when it filled about 120 disciples at the same time?”. Its a straw man argument. When applied to the Trinity, the word "Person" has a different meaning from when its applied to ourselves. And surely they know that…! Instead of 'Person", the word “Principle” can be used. God the Father is the “Generating” Principle.

The Holy Spirit is the Love between Father and Son. Each gives Himself totally to the Other, so the Spirit is totally God, as well. Nicene Creed: “…Who proceeds from the Father and the Son. With the Father and the Son, He is worshipped and glorified.”.

A good book to get hold of is “Theology and Sanity” by Frank Sheed, published by Ignatius Press. It devotes more than 30 pages to the Trinity. Scott Hahn has some good stuff covering the consequences of the Truth of It; eg Marriage and family life (The Trinity is the Divine Family).

Dont forget to make allowance for our limited understanding. Were not limitless, but God is.
 
In 1 John:4:1-6 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God; for many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God; every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God… They are from the world; therefore what they say is form the world, and the world listens to them. We are from God. Whoever know God listens to us. From this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.

The entire letter is good to read becuase it is about knowing false prophets.
Hope that helps.
 
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