Christ's philosophy without the supernatural

[JordanFernandez]

On another forum, a person linked to the Jefferson Bible and claims that Jesus’ philosophy is one of self-fulfillement, where man must constantly strive to better himself and his peers and live a good, decent life(according to most commonly accepted standards) in tolerance and love of all his peers.

He asks why so much importance is given in Christianity to the “flashy” supernatural stuff rather than “Love thy neighbor”. He then goes on a with a bunch of polemics on abortion clinic bombings and Pat Robertson.

How do I reply to this? How do I explain that the ethics of Christianity are inseperable from its other claims?

 

[trth_skr]

JordanFernandez:

On another forum, a person linked to the Jefferson Bible and claims that Jesus’ philosophy is one of self-fulfillement, where man must constantly strive to better himself and his peers and live a good, decent life(according to most commonly accepted standards) in tolerance and love of all his peers.

He asks why so much importance is given in Christianity to the “flashy” supernatural stuff rather than “Love thy neighbor”. He then goes on a with a bunch of polemics on abortion clinic bombings and Pat Robertson.

How do I reply to this? How do I explain that the ethics of Christianity are inseperable from its other claims?

This is basically naturalism, deism, masonry, etc.

This is the goal of lucifer- there is no need for God.
See this thread:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=92758

Mark Wyatt
www.veritas-catholic.blogspot.com

 

[Grace_and_Glory]

I don’t know if this helps at all, but it always seemed to me that Jesus’ philosophy was more about self-emptying than it is about self-fulfillment. You have to take up your cross and die to yourself. It’s only when you lose your life that you will find it.

 

[Maranatha]

Grace and Glory:

I don’t know if this helps at all, but it always seemed to me that Jesus’ philosophy was more about self-emptying than it is about self-fulfillment. You have to take up your cross and die to yourself. It’s only when you lose your life that you will find it.

I think that’s an excellent response. Self-fulfillment puts man at the center of the message. Self-emptying does not move God out of the center.

 

[ComradeAndrei]

One really cannot separate the religious teachings of Jesus out of the philosophical meanings some may ascribe to them. Along with many Catholic teachings, it is a matter of “both/and” not “either/or” or “this and not that”. You cannot call Jesus simply a “profound moral teacher” and also deny that He is God.

Why? Because He clearly claimed to be God and if He isn’t really God than He is either crazy or a liar and how can someone who is crazy or a liar be a profound moral teacher? Yet, the teachings of Jesus a certainly not like those of liars or madmen. What is the only reasonable claim? That Jesus is God.

The old apologetics still ring true!

Also, upon actually reading the initial question, the “supernatural stuff” is the reason to “love thy neighbor”. God so loved the world that He gave His only Son, and we show our love to God through many ways-worshiping Him in the Church He Himself which is His Mystical Body. Thus being the Mystical Body of Christ we strive to love each other as the Father and the Son love each other.

“Love they neighbor” has no meaning without its basis in the eternal love that God is. We cannot love without God, in fact we cannot exist.

Thus, if we try to take God out of the question our human efforts ring untrue. Think of Communism-they wanted brotherly love through international solidarity of the proletariat to march forward into a new and glorious future where everyone would have what they need and everything would be hunky dory. What happened with that? Stalin killed millions upon millions, not to mention Mao or their lesser minions. How about National Socialism? Just think of any system or philosophy that tries to take God out of the mix and you can see the horrid results. Even those that haven’t reached fruition or don’t aspire to world domination wreak havoc on the souls of the people they ensnare.

 

[dafalax]

JordanFernandez:

On another forum, a person linked to the Jefferson Bible and claims that Jesus’ philosophy is one of self-fulfillement, where man must constantly strive to better himself and his peers and live a good, decent life(according to most commonly accepted standards) in tolerance and love of all his peers.

He asks why so much importance is given in Christianity to the “flashy” supernatural stuff rather than “Love thy neighbor”. He then goes on a with a bunch of polemics on abortion clinic bombings and Pat Robertson.

How do I reply to this? How do I explain that the ethics of Christianity are inseperable from its other claims?

The “flashy” supernatural stuff is to build faith in the fact that Jesus is truly God. It’s not as important as His message, no, but if you just think His teachings are a philosophy and don’t treat them as immediately important as they should be to save you and others from sin, then you will be more likely to not take it seriously.
Furthermore, Jesus was not some peace loving hippie who just wanted us all to get along. He came to bring the truth and divide families between those who would believe and those who would serve Satan. Of course we must love our neighbors, but if you keep your mouth shut instead of giving them the truth about their salvation, how are you loving them?
The fact that he brought up abortion clinic bombers makes absolutely no sense. These people are not living the “love thy neighbor” message, but they are also not demonstrative of the flashy supernatural stuff. Bringing them up is a straw man argument to try to prove that religious conviction = violence and hypocrisy. If he wanted to argue that too much emphasis is placed on supernatural miracles, he should have given examples of that, not of terrorists. This person does not argue fairly or logically. Tell him to stick with one issue at a time or shut up because he obviously means to insult and not learn. How intolerant is that?