Christ's Second Coming

[peary]

In contrast, dispensationalists believe that the Kingdom will be a thousand-year, earthly reign of Christ, known as the millennium (from the Latin word for “thousand years”). Belief in a literal thousand-year earthly reign is called millenarianism or millennialism. It has been explicitly rejected by the Catholic Church. In 1944, the Holy Office warned against “. . . the system of mitigated Millenarianism, which teaches . . . that Christ the Lord before the final judgment, whether or not preceded by the resurrection of the many just, will come visibly to rule over this world. . . . The system of mitigated Millenarianism cannot be taught safely” (CCC 676).

i didn’t say per se that Christ would rule on earth for a thousand years; I interpret it as a period of time where something would occur to save His Church from Her worse persecution and, in this strength, the Church would be exemplified, and a period of peace would be granted to the world and after a great purging of the world. That would begin the thousand year Golden Age. I’ve always believed that and, whether you deem it heretical or not, there is nothing in this belief that weakens my Faith whatsoever.

 

[youngsaint]

That was taken from the Book of Revelations. As is it with this book, it is always a risk to try to figure out what it specifically means, especially if one try to understand it literally. Though the 1000 years was spelt out explicitly there, one can never discount the fact that it could still have figurative meaning. If the poster meant it this way, then I would agree with him.

God bless.

1000 is the number of fulfillment, so I think it means how ever long it takes

 

[Reuben_J]

1000 is the number of fulfillment, so I think it means how ever long it takes

That would be the most sensible way to approach Revelations – the book being apocalyptic. Lots of numbers are being mentioned there and as we know too well certain numbers are always symbolic in the Bible – 7, 12, 70 or even 144.

What’s interesting there are churches trying to interpolate these numbers or even using them literally. So we have people trying to figure out the time and the day of the end of the world or the number of the elects in heaven! And on top of that these people are quite serious in believing this.

 

[Truth_Seeker123]

I am actually referring to the Millenium event. The Millenium begins with a resurrection (Rev.20:4-6) and ends with a resurrection (Rev.20:5). Christ returns for His Church and gathers them together. There is, at the same time, the destruction of the wicked with general chaos throughout the earth where the earth as we know it will be destroyed (Rev.16:20-21).

“And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled.” (Revelation 20:1 – 3.)

I have to agree and disagree. I agree that The millennium reign with Christ is after the first resurrection. But I do not agree that there will be chaos. According to Matthew 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark.

This scripture let us know that things will be normal up until destruction. The ark was being built and people still received warning. Also the same concept apply with Sodom and Gomorrah.

According to Revelation 21:2 The holy city (New Jerusalem) will not come down from Heaven until after the 1000 year reign with Christ and the saints. Which means the saints and Christ will reign in Heaven (a sinless place)

After the holy city was brought down from Heaven, then satan was loosed. Then the second resurrection of all the wicked (the number of whom is as the sand of the sea). After the 2nd resurrection, satan decieves the nations (people) to take the holy city according to Revelation 20:7-9 That’s is when the wicked are destroyed by God forever.

 

[TheQuestioner]

i didn’t say per se that Christ would rule on earth for a thousand years; I interpret it as a period of time where something would occur to save His Church from Her worse persecution and, in this strength, the Church would be exemplified, and a period of peace would be granted to the world and after a great purging of the world. That would begin the thousand year Golden Age. I’ve always believed that and, whether you deem it heretical or not, there is nothing in this belief that weakens my Faith whatsoever.

The problem with postmillennialism is that Scripture does not depict the world as experiencing a
period of complete (or relatively complete) Christianization before the Second Coming. There are numerous passages that speak of the age between the First and Second Comings as a time of great sorrow and strife for Christians. One revealing passage is the parable of the wheat and the weeds (Matt. 13:24–30, 36–43). In this parable, Christ declares that the righteous and the wicked will both be planted and grow alongside each other in God’s field (“the field is the world,” Matt. 13:38) until the end of the world, when they will be separated, judged, and either be thrown into the fire of hell or inherit God’s kingdom (Matt. 13:41–43). There is no biblical evidence that the world will eventually become totally (or even almost totally) Christian, but rather that there will always be a parallel development of the righteous and the wicked until the final judgment.

 

[peary1]

I have to agree and disagree. I agree that The millennium reign with Christ is after the first resurrection. But I do not agree that there will be chaos. According to Matthew 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark.

This scripture let us know that things will be normal up until destruction. The ark was being built and people still received warning. Also the same concept apply with Sodom and Gomorrah.

According to Revelation 21:2 The holy city (New Jerusalem) will not come down from Heaven until after the 1000 year reign with Christ and the saints. Which means the saints and Christ will reign in Heaven (a sinless place)

After the holy city was brought down from Heaven, then satan was loosed. Then the second resurrection of all the wicked (the number of whom is as the sand of the sea). After the 2nd resurrection, satan decieves the nations (people) to take the holy city according to Revelation 20:7-9 That’s is when the wicked are destroyed by God forever.

"at that time there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will be. And if those days had not been shortened, no one would be saved; but for the sake of the elect they will be shortened. (Matthew 24:21-22)

"Brother will hand over brother to death, and the father his child; children will rise up against parents and have them put to death. You will be hated by all because of my name. But the one who perseveres to the end will be saved. "When you see the desolating abomination standing where he should not (let the reader understand), then those in Judea must flee to the mountains, (and) a person on a housetop must not go down or enter to get anything out of his house, and a person in a field must not return to get his cloak. Woe to pregnant women and nursing mothers in those days. Pray that this does not happen in winter. For those times will have tribulation such as has not been since the beginning of God’s creation until now, nor ever will be. If the Lord had not shortened those days, no one would be saved; but for the sake of the elect whom he chose, he did shorten the days. " (Mark 13:12-20)

“as it was in the days of Lot: they were eating, drinking, buying, selling, planting, building;
on the day when Lot left Sodom, fire and brimstone rained from the sky to destroy them all. So it will be on the day the Son of Man is revealed.” (Luke 17:28-30)

In each of the symoptic gospels, it is written about the ‘signs’ of Christ’s return. In each, the common understanding is that there will be a great tribulation or distress in the world prior to this event.

The 1000 year reign says nothing about Christ and the saints only reigning only in heaven, and, again, the common understanding is that there will be a thousand years of peace on earth. I believe that this will be a time of great evangelization by and peace to His Church on earth. Christ reigns through His Church because we are the Body of Christ.

 

[Vasian]

Mt 24
42"Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. 43But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into.

44So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.

50The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of.

We don’t know when the Lord will come – it will be like a thief who comes to steal at night – we don’t know when. Because of that we must always be ready and prepared so that when he comes we will be not found wanting but had done what we are supposed to do.

We are children of the light – we have received the revelation and understood them and therefore can act accordingly to prepare for his coming.

The Bible is clear – we therefore don’t have to worry when the time of the second coming is nor we try to predict it. Catholics look forwards for this second coming because of the great promise that comes with it. ***“Remember our brothers and sisters who have gone to their rest in the hope of rising again, bring them and all the departed into the light of your presence”, ***a prayer often said in the celebration of the Holy Eucharist alluding to the fact that the dead will rise again to be with the Lord.

We don’t bother too much where we would go because ultimately we would go to heaven if we have done correctly and according to his law.

I don’t see any mystery in those verses unlike others who dwell to speculate on the time and the day the Lord will come.

Most excellent post, and done so in the spirit and mind of Christ!
We do not live for a certain day or time in the future, but live everyday working hard to be “Christ like”

Remember! The Apostle Paul stated that “they” (way back then) were “living in the last days…”
And, Peter too: Acts 2: 16-127

Adventists groups have been claiming to, and attempting (in total failure) to predict the end times since the mid to late 1800’s up until these present times. do you truly believe that it matters?
Watchtower Society predicted dates:
jehovah.net.au/datedoctrine.html

 

[TheQuestioner]

"at that time there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will be. And if those days had not been shortened, no one would be saved; but for the sake of the elect they will be shortened. (Matthew 24:21-22)

"Brother will hand over brother to death, and the father his child; children will rise up against parents and have them put to death. You will be hated by all because of my name. But the one who perseveres to the end will be saved. "When you see the desolating abomination standing where he should not (let the reader understand), then those in Judea must flee to the mountains, (and) a person on a housetop must not go down or enter to get anything out of his house, and a person in a field must not return to get his cloak. Woe to pregnant women and nursing mothers in those days. Pray that this does not happen in winter. For those times will have tribulation such as has not been since the beginning of God’s creation until now, nor ever will be. If the Lord had not shortened those days, no one would be saved; but for the sake of the elect whom he chose, he did shorten the days. " (Mark 13:12-20)

“as it was in the days of Lot: they were eating, drinking, buying, selling, planting, building;
on the day when Lot left Sodom, fire and brimstone rained from the sky to destroy them all. So it will be on the day the Son of Man is revealed.” (Luke 17:28-30)

In each of the symoptic gospels, it is written about the ‘signs’ of Christ’s return. In each, the common understanding is that there will be a great tribulation or distress in the world prior to this event.

The 1000 year reign says nothing about Christ and the saints only reigning only in heaven, and, again, the common understanding is that there will be a thousand years of peace on earth. I believe that this will be a time of great evangelization by and peace to His Church on earth. Christ reigns through His Church because we are the Body of Christ.

The Catholic understanding has always been that this present age is the 1000 years in which Christ reigns in heaven and on earth through the Church. That being said it has also been taught that the wicked shall exist with the righteous until the day of judgment. The idea of some sort of “golden age” in which the whole world is Christian or that Christ will physically reign on earth (taking into account that the first does not imply the second) has been rejected by the Church and even many Traditional Protestants. So no, it is not a common understanding.

From: catholic.com/library/Rapture.asp

As far as the millennium goes, we tend to agree with Augustine and, derivatively, with the amillennialists. The Catholic position has thus historically been “amillennial” (as has been the majority Christian position in general, including that of the Protestant Reformers), though Catholics do not typically use this term. The Church has rejected the premillennial position, sometimes called “millenarianism” (see the Catechism of the Catholic Church 676). In the 1940s the Holy Office judged that premillennialism “cannot safely be taught,” though the Church has not dogmatically defined this issue.

 

[peary1]

The Catholic understanding has always been that this present age is the 1000 years in which Christ reigns in heaven and on earth through the Church. That being said it has also been taught that the wicked shall exist with the righteous until the day of judgment. The idea of some sort of “golden age” in which the whole world is Christian or that Christ will physically reign on earth (taking into account that the first does not imply the second) has been rejected by the Church and even many Traditional Protestants. So no, it is not a common understanding.

The Catholic understanding has NOT always been that this present age is the 1000 years in which Christ reigns in heaven and on earth through His Church. You could say that if you consider the Eucharistic Reality but not in the sense of a thousand-year reign of peace and harmony. Even the Bible does not say what you say!

First of all, it is not an age of peace. Period. There isn’t even ‘peace’ in the Church itself. Actually, this is theology and not Church dogma OR doctrine. Early theologians were also incorrect when they stated that the Jews were no longer the “Chosen people” of God, that Israel now is the Church. It took 1,962 years to correct that perception by Vatican II in light of the re-emergfence of Israel in 1948. Again, it is a matter of ‘theology’. And theology can be incorrect. Another case in point is the existence of Limbo. This was a theological construct and NOT a dogma or doctrine of the Church. Yet, we were taught, since the time of Aquinas, that this was a ‘truth.’

With the indication growing through authenticated apparitions throughout the world, we are ready to be punished severely by God. This will bring an end to the corruption and sinfulness in the world. Before this, however, there will be a great tribulation in the world that will greatly affect the Church. After this great tribulation, then shall reign the Hearts of Jesus and Mary throughout the world in peace. It is NOT the end of the world, but the ending of our present age. It is a prefigurement of the Apocalypse.

That is what I think. That is what I believe. It doesn’t weaken my Faith. In fact, it makes it stronger.

 

[TheQuestioner]

Brother peary, I merely seek to inform you that the Church teaches that there will always be a war against sin going on. That is to say that at no point in history will the entire world be Catholic (only that they may hear about Christ). There will always be children of the devil about, and the good and bad will be judged alongside them.

That this present age is the 1000 years of Christs reign has been a Church teaching since Augustine.

I’m not saying your not entitled to your own interpretation of events, but just be careful not to be mislead into thinking that any interpretation is ok to have, some have been condemned.

 

[peary1]

Brother peary, I merely seek to inform you that the Church teaches that there will always be a war against sin going on. That is to say that at no point in history will the entire world be Catholic (only that they may hear about Christ). There will always be children of the devil about, and the good and bad will be judged alongside them.

That this present age is the 1000 years of Christs reign has been a Church teaching since Augustine.

I’m not saying your not entitled to your own interpretation of events, but just be careful not to be mislead into thinking that any interpretation is ok to have, some have been condemned.

I understand what you are saying. However, please remember that theological constructs that those in the Church have endorsed in the past are not necessarily accurate. Again, that the Jews were no longer the Chosen People and that the Church took the place of Israel had been a Church teaching since the time of Augustine too. That has since been eliminated with Vatican II.