Church Architecture and Protestants

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Modern architecture does offend most Protestants. The weird, twisted, contorted stuff, like all art, conveys a philosophy, and most people don’t share the philosophy behind modern art. When you behold art that conforms to the nature of God, it evokes a different response in the soul from that which modern art evokes.

Picasso does not affect people as Michaelangelo does.

But, modern art aside, modern architectural trends are certainly driven by economics and the idea that function and efficiency are everything.
This is true. I have a Methodist friend. His church is very traditional. In fact, the pipes on the organ are painted with pictures of the 12 apostles. He has cousins who attend a Methodist church built in the 1970’s. He says it looks like a gymnasium, not a church. We cannot blame Protestants for the ugly modern churches. Many of them think their modern churches are ugly too.
 
I grew up in a very gothic church, pipe organ, traditional architecture. It was remodeled in the 90’s for over a million dollars. To build a new structure, including a comparable pipe organ, would cost nearly 8 million dollars. There’s no way that most churches or parishes could afford such a structure.

Staff salaries and benefits, ministry programming, clerical/office costs, insurance premiums, utility costs - all realities. The church/parish I now serve cost a little under $150,000 to build in the 1950’s. It would now cost $4,100,000 to build something comparable. I don’t know how we’d pull it off.
The poor immigrants sacrificed what little they had to build their churches.
I think that second point hits the target. When many of the great churches were built it was a status symbol for the rich person to be the one who gave their money to build a church. Now the common status symbol is a fancy SUV. 😦

Peace
 
I think that second point hits the target. When many of the great churches were built it was a status symbol for the rich person to be the one who gave their money to build a church. Now the common status symbol is a fancy SUV. 😦

Peace
Materialism is definitely a bigger problem nowadays.😦
 
I think churches dont go for “fancy” because the non believer looks at those fancy churches and thinks they are being wasteful. Of course they wont see the missions and work going on they just see a “fancy” building that gets a tax break for a bunch of idiots who believe in a fairy tale.

That has to be figured into things too. Dont forget conspiricy therories run amok.
 
“Modern” architecture doesn’t have to be ugly. Resurrection Catholic Church in Miramar Beach Florida is one of the most beautiful churches I’ve ever been in, and it’s thoroughly modern.
 
I think it’s a question of personal preference. I really like our very stark contemporary Catholic Church building as much as I like the Italian parish’s myriad of statues and stained glass.

And remember, a lot of Protestant churches are “seeker-friendly.” They are trying to make “seekers” comfortable.

Frankly, I never saw the point. To me, the “seeker” will not be fooled if the church looks like a bar, a sports arena, or a theater. It’s still a church, there’s still no alcohol or ball game, and if there is theater or music, it’s not as good as what’s in the seeker’s “world.”
 
I’m working as a civil engineer on a project for a totally new church on a totally new site for a Missouri Synod Lutheran parish. They have the same problems as us. The ‘programming’ is done first, then the building must be shoehorned into the budget. The result is cheap materials and compromised design.

Its not that good design can’t be done anymore. Its that people are too cheap to pay for it. 100 years ago, people lived in virtual shacks, but built palaces to worship God in. Today WE live in palaces and build a shack for God with the leftovers.
 
I think vanity is a huge part of the problem; maybe the biggest thing. Architects are a little tribe all their own. Most have been trained in the Ayn Rand/Bauhaus way of thinking about architecture; i.e., form follows function, and the plainer the better. When they design these buildings, they are basically “talking to each other”, and don’t care at all what people want. (How many people build their “dream homes” in a modernistic style?) Wanting to be “with it” too, many priests and bishops buy into the “latest”, just as they bought into psychobabble about child molesters some years back, with tragic results.

I simply do not buy into the notion that a traditional design is necessarily horribly expensive. Sure, if a person wanted to buy gold leaf now, it would cost massively more than it would have cost in 1910. But one can use modern materials in beautiful and uplifting designs. Look up “Henry Menzies” and “Adam Stroik” on the internet, and you will see modern materials used in traditional ways. Most of the decorative stuff is manufactured, and I found more than one website where they sell it…really beautiful stuff.

In any event, some of the stuff architects foist off on parishes and diocese are needlessly expensive, and do not necessarily aid function at all. Our parish just got snookered (against my protests, I offered to pay Henry Menzies myself, but was turned down) with a modernistic parish hall. The accepted bid was 2.6 million (meaning 3 million, of course) in a parish with maybe 450 families. Halfway on, the front facade masonry fell off because the architect thought it was “aesthetically pleasing” to alternate wide bands of brick with thin bands of faux stone, all balanced on an angle iron so it would seem to be without support in front, thus presenting a “clean line”. Well, it had support, but it was inadequate. The pastor now wants to put supports under the facade, but the architect doesn’t want his “aethetics” spoiled. So it just sits. Yes, and the architect talked the priest into building a sort of semi-tower to house the really wonderful bells that were taken out of the bell tower of the church because nobody seemed to know how to restore a wooden cradle-and-wheel. I offered to hire the local Amish to restore it, which they certainly are able to do, but no, the parish had to spend tens of thousands of dollars to build a half-tower on the parish hall because the architect (who I am sure looks forward to doing a rebuild of the church someday, and no doubt plans a flat building without a tower) just had to have that half-tower and convinced the pastor and the chancery that it just had to be.

It’s vanity, pure and simple. The architects want to impress each other, and convince priests and chanceries who know nothing about it and want to be “with it” and “modern”, to build things the people hate but have to pay for.

The only really good thing about these modernesque buildings is that they will be fairly easy for future generations to retrofit. You can make almost anything out of a cardboard box.
 
I think vanity is a huge part of the problem; maybe the biggest thing. Architects are a little tribe all their own. Most have been trained in the Ayn Rand/Bauhaus way of thinking about architecture; i.e., form follows function, and the plainer the better.
Ayn Rand did write a novel called The Fountainhead which was about architects, but she was never an architect herself. She was a novelist and philosopher who also studied screenwriting. She had no architectural training. From Wikipedia:
Rand then returned to St. Petersburg (“Petrograd”) to attend university.[7] She studied philosophy and history at the University of Petrograd. She completed a three-year program in the department of Social Pedagogy that included history, philology and law, and received Certificate of Graduation (Diploma No. 1552) on 13 October 1924. She entered the State Institute for Cinema Arts in 1924 to study screenwriting; in late 1925, however, she was granted a visa to visit American relatives.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayn_Rand
 
And in the catacombs. How many modern Catholics could we get to attend the Mass if it was in a tomb?
Many cemetaries (particularly older ones) have very nice sculptures and masoleums. I much rather have mass in a cemetary, meditating on the Sacrifice of Calvary and the Four Last Things than in some round monstrosity or in a church that looks like a federal building.
 
Many cemetaries (particularly older ones) have very nice sculptures and masoleums. I much rather have mass in a cemetary, meditating on the Sacrifice of Calvary and the Four Last Things than in some round monstrosity or in a church that looks like a federal building.
In Cleveland for Memorial Day, they celebrate Mass at the Catholic cemeteries.
 
Ayn Rand did write a novel called The Fountainhead which was about architects, but she was never an architect herself. She was a novelist and philosopher who also studied screenwriting. She had no architectural training.
Sorry I didn’t make myself clear. I did not suggest that Ayn Rand was, herself, an architect. As you know, however, the protagonist in “The Fountainhead” was an architect. The approach to architecture clearly espoused in the book is a stripped-down, intellectually elitist “form follows function” kind of thing. The philosophy expressed in “The Fountainhead” is self-elevating, not just in architecture, but in all things, and shows contempt for the “lesser” (e.g. religious) motivations of others.

The stripped-down Bauhaus school grew out of a Marxist concept of “what’s best for the workers”, never mind that the workers hated it and liked lace curtains and gingerbread.

Ayn Rand was hardly a Marxist. She was more of a radical secular libertarian. But the arrogance of both has, in the mind of some, the same Nietschean roots; both certainly contemptuous of religion and the sensibilities of “lesser beings”.

For a hilarious expose of this whole “modernist” school of architecture, I strongly recommend Tom Wolfe’s “From Bauhaus to Our House”. Future generations will marvel at all this as they figure out how to make more attractive all the ugly buildings modern architecture generated. It’s already “old fashioned”, by the way.
 
The philosophy expressed in “The Fountainhead” is self-elevating, not just in architecture, but in all things, and shows contempt for the “lesser” (e.g. religious) motivations of others.
True. Self-elevation was a key tenet in Rand’s philosophy. She also co-wrote a book called The Virtue of Selfishness.
The stripped-down Bauhaus school grew out of a Marxist concept of “what’s best for the workers”, never mind that the workers hated it and liked lace curtains and gingerbread.
Ayn Rand was hardly a Marxist. She was more of a radical secular libertarian. But the arrogance of both has, in the mind of some, the same Nietschean roots; both certainly contemptuous of religion and the sensibilities of “lesser beings”.
True. Although Rand’s philosophy was the polar opposite of Marxism (she hated any form of collectivism), the utilitarian architectural styles do embrace both the Bauhaus style and the style of Rand’s architect protagonist, “Howard Roark”.
 
And in the catacombs. How many modern Catholics could we get to attend the Mass if it was in a tomb?
Unfortunately, in America, churches - Protestant and Catholic alike - resemble tombs more and more.
 
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