Church History

[Church_Militant]

Scott Waddell:

Anyone else think a Protestant giving Catholic Church history is kinda like McClellan giving the history of the Lincoln administration?

The problem for Church poo-pooers is that if a few Early Church Fathers with different ideas about a Church doctrine disprove that doctrine, then the fact that not a single church father before the 300’s AD got all the books belonging in Scripture disproves Sola Scriptura.

Scott

Nooooo! No way??? Really??? Well I’ll just be hornswagled! :irish1:

 

[TNT]

Robert Shadwick:

Hey Folks,
After looking at the various resources presented by some here and from elsewhere … Yet I can not turn away from what I can read in the scriptures.
The Churches of Christ salute you,
Robert

Thanks for your patience,
Robert

"I can not turn away from what I can read in the scriptures."

Dear POPE Robert I:

You did that long ago!

**“The Churches of Christ salute you,”

I believe that is Rom 16:16 :
**“All the churches of Christ salute you.” ie THE CHURCH OF ROME. INTERESTING!

**Now, the sure sign of a phoney COC wanna-be ****preacher ****is that they make infallible declarations BUT never come up to answer honest questons. Like a windup recording.
**POPE ROBERT, YOU FIT THE DESCRIPTION!

The only way you can redeem yourself is to ANSWER the honest QUESTIONS. Until then, u r as phoney as a wolf in sheep’s underwear.

Admonishing the sinner is an act of Charity.
You’ve been admonished.

 

[kalebevans]

As Catholic’s why do we pay so much time battling an individual’s/Protestant’s interpretation of Scripture? Their hatred of the Church came first, then their interpretation of the Bible to support their arguments to abolish the Church. It is so easy in 2005 AD to slap our faces w/ an individual interpretation of text and teaching. If I wanted to learn about my ancestors and their traditions, I certainly would not go to my next-door neighbors’ house for tea and conversation. I would sit down and do some research! I would certainly be offended if my neighbor interrupted a 2000-year-old family tradition of mine and told me I was doing it all wrong. That is what Protestants do because they get their information from other Protestants, am I right or wrong?

 

[TNT]

kalebevans:

As Catholic’s why do we pay so much (WASTED) time battling an individual’s/Protestant’s interpretation of Scripture? Their hatred of the Church came first, then their interpretation of the Bible to support their arguments to abolish the Church. It is so easy in 2005 AD to slap our faces w/ an individual interpretation of text and teaching. If I wanted to learn about my ancestors and their traditions, I certainly would not go to my next-door neighbors’ house for tea and conversation. I would sit down and do some research! I would certainly be offended if my neighbor interrupted a 2000-year-old family tradition of mine and told me I was doing it all wrong. That is what Protestants do because they get their information from other Protestants, am I right or wrong?

YOU ARE DEAD ON!
Robert is nothing but a prot sect bigot bent on practicing his preaching-for-dummies.
He has no more interest in the truth or honest inquiry than a jelly bean.
How do we know? Because when we ask our own questions that aren’t in their programmed schpiel, they ignore, just like a tape recording.

Thanks for your post

 

[Robert_Shadwick]

I was hoping I could express my sentiments here without being attacked personally. The statements I have posted concern my beliefs on the history of the church. That history includes the apostasy. I know that I am not a scholar. Perhaps some of you are. I leave you in your pursuits. Sincerly , I will be in prayer over all of this.
Robert

 

[Salmon]

Robert Shadwick:

Hey Folks,
After looking at the various resources presented by some here and from elsewhere , (and of course using what I have already learned prior) I can see that when the church began , every local congregation was an independant unit. There was no super-government of any kind tying these congregations together, or exercising authority over them. There were only two kinds of officers in a congregation-the Elders and Deacons. Every organized congregation had a plurality of each. The Elders were the superior officers, and all of these Elders were on a perfect equality. They were sometimes called pastors or bishops, and were always married men, with believing children
(1 Tim.3:1-13).

I won’t spend a great deal of time on this, as I have not received a single response from you on several issues as of yet. It appears that you only wish to post, but not to dialogue at all.

You post a description of the early church. Is this the church configuration at the time Christ ascended into heaven? By what authority did the church reconfigure itself after the ascension?
At what time did the church abdicate the authority to reconfigure itself?

These writings (among hundreds) dispute your idea of the early church:
Pope Clement I

“Owing to the sudden and repeated calamities and misfortunes which have befallen us, we must acknowledge that we have been somewhat tardy in turning our attention to the matters in dispute among you, beloved; and especially that abominable and unholy sedition, alien and foreign to the elect of God, which a few rash and self-willed persons have inflamed to such madness that your venerable and illustrious name, worthy to be loved by all men, has been greatly defamed. . . . Accept our counsel and you will have nothing to regret. . . . If anyone disobey the things which have been said by him [God] through us *, let them know that they will involve themselves in transgression and in no small danger. . . . You will afford us joy and gladness if being obedient to the things which we have written through the Holy Spirit, you will root out the wicked passion of jealousy” (Letter to the Corinthians 1, 58–59, 63 [A.D. 80]).

Hermas

“Therefore shall you [Hermas] write two little books and send one to Clement [Bishop of Rome] and one to Grapte. Clement shall then send it to the cities abroad, because that is his duty” (The Shepherd 2:4:3 [A.D. 80]).

Ignatius of Antioch

“Ignatius . . . to the church also which holds the presidency, in the location of the country of the Romans, worthy of God, worthy of honor, worthy of blessing, worthy of praise, worthy of success, worthy of sanctification, and, because you hold the presidency in love, named after Christ and named after the Father” (Letter to the Romans 1:1 [A.D. 110]).

“You [the church at Rome] have envied no one, but others you have taught. I desire only that what you have enjoined in your instructions may remain in force” (ibid., 3:1).

Your interpretation of 1 Timothy 3:

1This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.

2A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

is certainly at odds with both the Catholic and Orthodox understanding.

Neither the Catholic Church nor the Orthodox allow a married man to become bishop. However, both will allow a man who has been the husband of one wife to become bishop. In this case, they must be unmarried, usually widowed,but not having been the husband of more than one wife. There are more than a few Catholic priests who entered the priesthood upon becoming widowed.

In the Orthodox Churches, and in the Roman Catholic Church (there are about 28 married Catholic priests in the U.S. at this time), if a married priest is widowed, he is not allowed to remarry. That would make him the husband of more than one wife.

Paul wasn’t really ruling out polygamists as bishops. Polygamy has never been an accepted practice by Christianity.

Peace in Christ…Salmon*

 

[Mickey]

Robert Shadwick:

I was hoping I could express my sentiments here without being attacked personally. The statements I have posted concern my beliefs on the history of the church. That history includes the apostasy. I know that I am not a scholar. Perhaps some of you are. I leave you in your pursuits. Sincerly , I will be in prayer over all of this.
Robert

Your opinion of the apostasy is a personal attack on every Catholic on this forum. What did you expect, a big group hug?

:whacky: smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/29/29_1_8.gif

 

[Titanites]

Robert Shadwick:

I leave you in your pursuits.

Instead of preaching, Robert, why don’t you try dialogue? You don’t respond to the answers you receive but seem big on lecturing. If you are genuinely interested in learning, then you need to discuss, not just preach.