Church of Christ / International churches of Christ

  • Thread starter Thread starter magnificat2
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
M

magnificat2

Guest
I am trying to learn more about this denomination (the Church of Christ and/or International Churches of Christ). If you know anything or happen to know any good sources, please share. I am particular interested in the differences of this denomination to Catholicism and how to refute this denomination.
 
There’s a lot of really good sites for this. I have studied them for at least 6 yrs as I have a few relatives in the Churches of Christ.
A very recent book has been published, which I bought, by a whole group of COC members (including preachers) that individually converted to the Catholc Faith. Just search on “Just searching for the truth” on amazon, etc.
As I get time today, I’ll post them for you. One of those sites gives a detailed history from 1800-present of how they originated, developed and who the personalities were that were dominant in their history. I think it’s about 52 pages long if you print it out. (I learned how to set my printer to print on both sides from this one!).
The average COC member has NO CLUE about their history of origin. It is NEVER taught in the COC meetings or even in their colleges.

There is also an EX-COC site and it concentrates why they left and the consequences. A COC who leaves very often loses all religious affiliation, just like JW’s and LDS. They just “quit” religion.
.
 
A guy from the Church of Christ was arguing with a Catholic friend about the issue of Immersion for valid baptism.
The Catholic counters with a question:
"So just what part of the body is important to be covered with water in order to be baptised; say I immerse a man up to his knees does that work?
The CoCer shakes his head “NO”.
If I immerse a man up to his waist does that work?
The CoCer shakes his head “NO”.
If I immerse a man up to his neck does that work?
The CoCer shakes his head “NO!”.
If I immerse a man up to just below the top of his head does that work?
The CoCer shakes his head “NO” but says “you’re close”.
If I immerse a man up *so that the top of his head is covered, *does that work?
The CoCer nods “YES!” emphatically, “YES!”.

The Catholic then says well, that’s just the part we baptise.
 
Thank you TNT. I will look into that information and get back with you on my questions. I am going to try to get that book:
We’re Just Searching for Truth : Journeys of Faith from The Church of Christ to the Catholic Church
 
40.png
magnificat2:
I am trying to learn more about this denomination (the Church of Christ and/or International Churches of Christ). If you know anything or happen to know any good sources, please share. I am particular interested in the differences of this denomination to Catholicism and how to refute this denomination.
B. T. C.

= Big Time Cult

“Google” ICOC and you will find all the info you need.
 
As I am sure you know it is often difficult to separate the two ‘Churches of Christ’ from each other. The older church dates back to the 1800’s when the founders came to the realisation that full immersion (and as TNT’s joke implies they mean full- not even a finger above water) was necessary to salvation. A split developed when the leader of the Boston Church of Christ (Bart Brewer, I think that was his name) came to believe that ‘discipleship’ was a key Christian doctrine. Every church member was to be a disciple and evangelise. Your status in the church was determined by how ‘fruitful’: you were i.e. how many converts you made. The good tree bears good fruit. Of course as your fruit became fruitful you increased in status. A kind of pyramid marketing scheme for religion.

The “discipleship” system leads to exceptionally tight control. Each disciple reports to his or her discipler and your discipler reports to his discipler and so on until you reach the Boston Church. You are ‘discipled’ by your discipler, who will you ensure you act as a disciple i.e. evangelise, attend meetings, social events and public confession sessions. These have been described to me as the equivalent of Maoist self-denunciation exercises. During one particular session I was told that the group began making up more and more outrageous sins and that the group would go up and denounce the sinner by saying things like “You are spitting in Jesus’ face”.

Disciplers often encouraged new disciples to leave home and move into a church-run commune. Family members who resisted these moves and criticised the church were instruments of Satan and all contact was to be broken. Disciples were encouraged only to socialise within a church context and also to marry within the church. This tight organisation, isolation from family or friends and a grueling evangelisation schedule that often left very little time for anything else has lead the church to be described as a cult. See Combating Cult Mind Control by Steve Hassan.

About 10 years ago a couple of friends and I were able to help four people leave the ‘church’. Through God’s grace one of them reverted to Catholicism and two others converted to the Faith. We found that straightforward doctrinal argument was most effective. My most successful tactic was to say “show me just one thing in the Bible that contradicts the Catholic Church’s teaching and I will leave the Catholic Church.” This seems like taking candy from a baby and so they are quickly into the ‘Call no man Father’ and Mary and the Saints type arguments. My aim here was never to win these arguments but merely to show that my interpretation was as likely as their interpretation. Catholicism and Fundamentalism and the CA Tracts are very useful.

Once you have sown some doubts you can move onto issues such as salvation especially the question of whether you can lose your salvation or not. I would then usually discuss the Eucharist, and move onto Tradition. I would ask them to read 2 Thess 2:15 from the NIV, the version they usually use. They would read ‘teachings’ and I would refer them to the footnote which says ‘or traditions’ and then show them this in a Catholic bible. This seemed to bring home to them the fact that some questionable biblical translation had taken place. After going through the rest of the tradition argument they would usually have serious doubts. I would also ask them to show me the history section of their ‘discipleship manuals’ and ask where was your church before 1800? What about Christ’s promise not to let the gates of hell prevail against the Church? Why is there no record of the nasty Catholics persecuting people who held your beliefs? This would usually shake them up and then I would introduce the topic of Purgatory. I would finally bring up 2 Macc 12:44 and the whole issue of Sola Scriptura would come up. Eventually they would see that only the Catholic position made any sense. I have found that it is important not to start with this argument as any appeals to logic or extra-biblical sources are easily dismissed as the ‘vain philosophisings of men’.

(post continues)
 
(Continuation of Post)

Life in the CoC is a series of ups and downs. These downs are triggered by a lack of fruitfulness i.e. no conversions, a feeling of sinfulness or just sheer exhaustion. Often CoC members will begin to doubt the validity of their baptism. How can I not be a good disciple and have been validly baptised? They have a quasi-sacramental view of baptism. For example every part of your body must be under water. You must also have Faith. They begin to doubt whether they really had faith before being baptised or even if they were fully immersed and so multiple re-baptisms are common. It is best to speak to members when they are on the way into a down. When they are on an up they are impervious to all argument and when in the depths of depression they are shut down.

The older Church of Christ is very much a mainline Protestant group. They are very upset at being associated with the International Churches of Christ. The ICOC website is icoc.org

Christopher
 
I am trying to learn more about this denomination (the Church of Christ and/or International Churches of Christ). If you know anything or happen to know any good sources, please share. I am particular interested in the differences of this denomination to Catholicism and how to refute this denomination.
I know I’m a little late to this conversation 😉 but I came across this during a Google search just now. Since I used to be a member of the icoc, I figured I should chime in. The older COC denomination was very influenced by John Locke, his idea that Christian unity would be more attainable if we focused on doing the right actions (which he thought was cut and dry) than debating doctrine. Thomas and Alexander Campbell, both Trinitarians built this denomination with Barton Stone, a non-Trinitarian. This denomination had changed its beliefs a lot as it went from the first generation to the 3rd and 4th generation as they tried to hold onto the idea of oversimplified Christian unity but seeing that it didn’t work and it was hard to develop any depth from doing so. The ICOC (aka Boston Movement) actually has its roots in a COC campus ministry in Gainesville, FL during the 70’s. They were very influenced by the Jesus Movement and a book by Evangelical Robert Coleman, The Master Plan of Evangelism. They became very focused on results of membership growth, snd VERY utilitarian in its approach. They are very works focused. You never hear them talk about topics such as dignity of the human person or Incarnational theology. Since their growth is built on pyramid scheme evangelism it is hard to tell for sure what are common errors in their ideas versus what are their official teachings.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top