Church of England row over Muslim conversion.

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"Bishop of Urban Life and Faith, said: “Both the Bishop of Rochester’s reported comments and the synod private members’ motion show no sensitivity to the need for good inter-faith relations. Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus and Sikhs are learning to respect one another’s paths to God and to live in harmony. This demand for the evangelisation of people of other faiths contributes nothing to our communities.”"
telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2028638/Church-of-England-row-over-Muslim-conversion.html

How come he put all those religions in one basket, and how he knows that all those paths would lead to the same true God?
 
is living in harmony with one another is what save us? is it what Jesus taught?

why then when Jesus came, He said: “dont think i came to bring peace but the sword.”

if all religions are accept by God, what is the point of Jesus come down and die on the cross? is His death only for a few?

i believe this is one more strategy from the devil to stop the conversion of people to Christ. the plan is to intimidate us from speak about Our Lord to others.

but i believe that all have heard about Jesus by now. some will hear some will not.

:bowdown: :gopray2: :signofcross:
 
They are worried about the spread of islam in the Uk and the prediction that in the coming years practising muslims will out strip practicing christians and hence Islam will become the most practiced faith in the UK…

The churches stats suggest that in the UK in the last decade 50,000 christians have converted to islam, whilst the amount of muslims becoming christians is negligible (according to christian sources)…

In reality, all this has NOTHING to do with muslims, or anybody of any other faith…

The problem is the indigenous christian population is NOT pious (its the same with Europe in General), they dont care about religion or God or Jesus, they dont go to church, they dont read the bible.

They are happy to mock the church, mock jesus, mock God and mock religious people (hence U.S christians get laughed at in Europe)…

You have to stop attacking muslims and the spread of islam, when the REAL issues is the fight with an increasingly secular non-religious population…

It is better that non-religious people become muslims, rather then they become non-religious and denounce and forsake God altogether which is what is happening at the moment.

Being sensational about the spread of islam is just spreading xenophobia
 
rayaan,some christian convert to islam just for marriage.but you told that 50000 converted?i don’t belive it.but if it is true then search how many muslims became christian like me.but we don’t reveal it for fear.&in uk islam is spreading by its high birth rate not with conversion i guess.do you know i read many hot cake type books named’why i became muslim’.those writer claim that regularly thousands ppl is converting to islam.:Dvery funny claim
 
rayaan,if church think that 50000 ppl became muslim then i am not agree with it.actually muslims claim that maybe thats why church also think so.but when muslims convert to christianity then i think church will not reveal it because church know it will be harmfull for converted christian.thats why they don’t reveal the reall number.so don’t be very happy.no 1 is converting to islam.just some ppl convert for so called love&marriage.:)thanks
 
Yes they do, but by hook or crook we respond, we never allow there insults and attacks go unanswered and in our society whatever you do, you do not attack God…

You allow these people to mock and humiliate God, you allow them to mock and humiliate Jesus and the other prophets, you hardly respond,its pathetic…

Porn, immorality, homosexuality, deviancy is rife and it is fast replacing faith in your society,

One of the main problem area between Muslims and non-Muslims in society is the faith Muslims show in God, our passion for islam and our refusal to follow secular belief which attack God…

**Morning Star, it was the is the church who believes, that in the last decade 50,000 christians have become Muslims, whilst the amount of muslims who have become christian is NEGLIGABLE

Islam is the most conversionary faith in the world, more people convert to islam then to any other religion there are numerous unbiased articles from secular sources that prove this point…

When christians make daft and very “convenient” claims that if it wasnt for fear all muslims would become christian,

WHYYYYY!!!, why would we leave belief in one God, and start to believe in THREE deities,

Muslims didn’t convert during the brutal colonial period and we art converting whilst we live and are born in the west in the heart of Christendom**

Once again this is nothing to do with us…

Muslims and people converting to islam aren’t the problem for Christianity.

The problem is christians not reading the bible, not going to church, not caring about your religion, or god, or Jesus

You are being consumed by a consumer led, greedy society which is in turn affecting the way you think and worship…

Christian Rock and all that other nonsense are weird futile inventions and innovation in the worship of God that God did not call for, so is worship of jesus rather then God.
 
oho my dear rayaan,can you remember once a muslim fellow(i think it was you) wrote that those countries like pakistan is a paradise?but i read many article of pak writer&also our bangladeshi writer that after sunset pakistani women in small towns can’t stay outside their house.because the fear of rape.now who can addressed pakistan as a paradise then what can i answer him:shrug:ur paradise is like that.so should you argue about western society?
 
Yes they do, but by hook or crook we respond, we never allow there insults and attacks go unanswered and in our society whatever you do, you do not attack God…
And this is what Islam claims as being peaceful
You allow these people to mock and humiliate God, you allow them to mock and humiliate Jesus and the other prophets, you hardly respond,its pathetic…
We believe our God is strong and powerful, so no need to interfere with the law of God. We also realize that we are sinners that we are not worthy to deliver punishment in the name of God. The way you are talking, shows that you are some kind of a holyman in Islam.

You insult your God by taking over His right to deliver punishment by your human weaknesses. You are strong only when you are majority. I believe that you are not a supporter of those terrorist claiming to be Muslims, are you?
Porn, immorality, homosexuality, deviancy is rife and it is fast replacing faith in your society,
Beware, yee the Europeans!!!. The Islam Holyman Rayaan is cursing you.
One of the main problem area between Muslims and non-Muslims in society is the faith Muslims show in God, our passion for islam and our refusal to follow secular belief which attack God…
\QUOTE]

The other problem is the fact that Rayaan has the right to replace God to deliver punishments. The next thing is you will claim that either the angel of Jibril or Muhammad came to you and gave you the such right to judge others.
rayaan;3741216:
Morning Star, it was the is the church who believes, that in the last decade 50,000 christians have become Muslims, whilst the amount of muslims who have become christian is NEGLIGABLE

Islam is the most conversionary faith in the world, more people convert to islam then to any other religion there are numerous unbiased articles from secular sources that prove this point…

When christians make daft and very “convenient” claims that if it wasnt for fear all muslims would become christian,
When I was in school, my professor told me that the third party which lies is Statistic.
WHYYYYY!!!, why would we leave belief in one God, and start to believe in THREE deities,
You still have not done your homework of explaining the uncreated and eternal entity of Quran. So, there are TWO uncreated and eternal entity: God and Quran. That is Polytheism. If you believe it isn’t, then do your homework. Reclaiming is not answering, and I believe that you are intelligent enough to understand.
Muslims didn’t convert during the brutal colonial period
For the one who does will be KILLED
We art converting whilst we live and are born in the west in the heart of Christendom

Once again this is nothing to do with us…

Muslims and people converting to islam aren’t the problem for Christianity.
A Modern conquest a la Islam?
The problem is christians not reading the bible, not going to church, not caring about your religion, or god, or Jesus

You are being consumed by a consumer led, greedy society which is in turn affecting the way you think and worship…
Thanks for your advice. You remind me to read the bible and go to the Church, and care more to God. Good advise 👍
Christian Rock and all that other nonsense are weird futile inventions and innovation in the worship of God that God did not call for, so is worship of jesus rather then God.
You are confusing me, Rayaan. In your previous paragraph you told us the problem of greedy society and consumerim is because we don’t read the bible enough and we don’t go to the Church enough. Now in this sentence, you disdain Christianity. Do you think the Church is teaching Islamic religion?
 
rayaan,if church think that 50000 ppl became muslim then i am not agree with it.actually muslims claim that maybe thats why church also think so.but when muslims convert to christianity then i think church will not reveal it because church know it will be harmfull for converted christian.thats why they don’t reveal the reall number.so don’t be very happy.no 1 is converting to islam.just some ppl convert for so called love&marriage.:)thanks
I think you make some good points.
 
They are happy to mock Muhammad too.
No one has to mock him - just tell the truth about him.

Read the koran and hadiths - it tells us all about mohammed. the problem is that telling the truth about mohammed to muslims means that we mock him because they don’t want us to do that - tell the truth.
 
I found a very good website on what muslims think of ‘religious freedom’ and other religions. the problem in the UK is that everyone is in denial, no one is cracking open a koran and finding out what is up. So, they are going the way that the Lebanon has gone - violence against non-muslims.

al-inaam.com/

FREEDOM OF RELIGION

The Islamic State extracts a tax from the non-Muslim citizens of the state. By virtue of this tax they are granted complete freedom of religion. Thus if their religion supports idols, we have no right to interfere with the idols for this will be in conflict with the freedom of religion which they are guaranteed.

Answer

Firstly, let us not be fooled by the term “freedom of religion”. There is no absolute “freedom of religion”. There is not a single state on earth that grants it’s citizens absolute freedom of religion. Even though such clauses appear in the constitutions of many States, it is a relative term. Should anyone’s personal religious convictions and practices conflict with the interests of the state, then such religious practices will be outlawed.

So just as every other state on earth gives preference to its own interests over the religious convictions of any citizen, similarly too does the Islamic state give preference to its own objectives.

An Islamic state is established with the sole purpose of establishing the Deen of Allah Ta’ala on Allah’s earth. The prime object is to entrench Islam in the land. Should any individual’s personal interests be in conflict with this objective, preference will obviously be given to the Deen. The Islamic State is established for the Deen, and not for any particular individual or group. This will apply to even Muslim citizens. Should their personal ideals be in conflict with that of Islam, the ideals of Islam would reign superior.

While the non-Muslim citizens do have the right to practice their religion in Daarul Islam, this is subject to certain conditions. The need for these conditions arises from the fact that, should they be granted absolute freedom, some of their actions would come in conflict with the objectives of the State. Some of these conditions will be discussed below.

The Jizyah which the non-Muslim citizens of Daarul Islam (an Islamic State) pay does not grant them “complete freedom of religion” but rather guarantees them three rights:

0.Security of life: It is the duty of the Islamic State to guarantee the sanctity of life.

0.Security of property and honour. Similarly the Islamic State has to provide security to their property. No one has the right to usurp their wealth. In the same light, no one may attack their honour; e.g. no one may backbite or slander the non-Muslim citizen. Retribution will be taken from anyone violating their rights.

0.Their right to practice their religion, subject to conditions.

Conditions:

While the conditions under which non-Muslims are granted citizenship of Daarul Islam are many, at this juncture we refer to only those that are relative to our discussion.

Some of these conditions are:

0.They may practice their religion within the privacy of their homes

0.They may not build any new churches, synagogues etc.

0.Should any church, synagogue etc. be destroyed or require repair, they may repair or rebuild such buildings.

0.They may not celebrate any religious festivals in public

0.They may not display in public any item having particular religious purport, e.g. bible, Cross, statue, etc.

0.Such items should also be removed from the exterior of their places of worship i.e. No idol, Cross etc may be displayed on the outside of their places of worship.

0.They may not ring the church bell, nor read their religious books so loud that it is audible in public.

0.They may not invite towards their religion.

The reason for these conditions is that the purpose of Daarul Islam is to entrench Islam on the earth. Thus the salient features in religion must only be that of Islam. No features of other religions may be observable in public.
 
here is the rest of the things I found on that website:

It is only when Muslims firmly enforced such laws that Islam reigned superior on earth. Thus the object for which Daarul Islam was established had been achieved.

Regarding the conditions under which non-Muslims will be allowed to reside in an Islamic state, Ibn Taymiyyah writes that there exists a unanimous consensus of the fuqaha, and the entire Ummah on these conditions. He then mentions:

“And from amongst these conditions are those that are related to the kuffaar concealing the evils of their religion, and not exhibiting these evils. Examples of these are the prohibition of them displaying Khamr (wine), or the church bell or yoke; the prohibition of publicly celebrating their festivals and the like thereof. … Also, they may not expose any of the salient features of their religion. E.g. they may not raise their voices when reciting their scriptures.……

Hazrat Umar (Radiyallahu anhu) and all the Muslims after him, including all the Ulama, are unanimous that the non-Muslims are prohibited from exposing in Daarul Islam (an Islamic state) anything that may be particularly associated with their religion. Particular emphasis was placed on the injunction that no feature of the mushrikeen (idol worshippers) should ever be displayed in Daarul Islam…. This was in obedience to Allah and His Rasool (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam), and in conformity to the Quráan, while holding firm to the Sunnah of Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam)” (I’laa-us sunan Pg. 520 Vol. 12; Idaratul Qa’raan)

Some of the conditions under which the non-Muslims had willfully adopted citizenship of Daarul Islam, and which were proposed by Hazrat Umar (Radiyallahu anhu), are:

0.We will not sell liquor.

0.We will not display the Cross on our churches, or any other public place.

0.We will only ring our church bells softly, and only from within [and not outside] our churches.

0.We will not raise our voices during prayers.

0.We will not display the yoke at any public place.

0.We will not celebrate the festivals of Easter and Palm Sunday.

0.We will not call towards our religion.

(Al Mughni Vol. 10 pg. 606 as quoted in I’laa-us sunan pg. 520 vol. 12.)

When Abu Ubaida ib Jarraah (Radiyallahu anhu) conquered Shaam (Syria), he stipulated similar condition on the non-Muslim citizens as Hazrat Umar (Radiyallahu anhu) used to stipulate. The Christians thereafter requested to be allowed to celebrate one day of festivity within the year, in which they are allowed to display the Cross. Hazrat Abu Ubaida-tubnul Jarraah wrote to Hazrat Umar (Radiyallahu anhu), and received this reply:

“They may celebrate one day of festivity within every year. They may only display the Cross outside the city. As far as within the city, or the Muslim public, they may not display the Cross. This is only for this particular day. They may not display the cross on any other day. (Even outside the cities)” (I’laa-us sunan pg. 520 vol. 12)

Umar bin Abdul Aziz (rahimahullah) wrote to his governor such:

“Do not leave a cross exposed. Should you find one, demolish and efface it.” (I’laa-us sunan pg. 520 vol. 12; Idaratul Qur’aan)

These quotations bear ample testimony to the fact that religious symbols may not be publicly displayed in Daarul Islam.
 
They cannot have straight road intersection, because from the above, it could be seen as a cross.

Next, they will modify addition sign in Math and in the keyboard computer, because it looks like a cross.

Next, they will modify the roman character “X” and in the keyboard because “X” is the expression of Greek capital letter “Chi” which is the shorthand writing of Christ.

Gee, brother R_not, we must advise them about these too, before they realize it later on, made radical changes.
 
They cannot have straight road intersection, because from the above, it could be seen as a cross.

Next, they will modify addition sign in Math and in the keyboard computer, because it looks like a cross.

Next, they will modify the roman character “X” and in the keyboard because “X” is the expression of Greek capital letter “Chi” which is the shorthand writing of Christ.

Gee, brother R_not, we must advise them about these too, before they realize it later on, made radical changes.
It sounds like I hit a chord with you. What is the matter? don’t like what you read?😛
 
No one has to mock him - just tell the truth about him.

Read the koran and hadiths - it tells us all about mohammed. the problem is that telling the truth about mohammed to muslims means that we mock him because they don’t want us to do that - tell the truth.
There is a new book out about him written by an ex-muslim - Ali Sina.

It is called, 'Understanding mohammed, A Psychobiography by Ali Sina.

Here is an excerpt from a short writeup on this book.

*"Since September 11, 2001, there have been over 11,000 terrorist attacks, resulting in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of civilians and a lot more injuries, throughout the world. The perpetrators of these attacks were not monsters; they were Muslims. They were pious people who believed and acted in accordance with their faith. There are millions more who think like them and are ready to do the same.

If you think Islamic terrorism is a new phenomenon, think again. Islam owes its success to terrorism. The prophet of Islam boasted, “I have been made victorious with terror". [Bukhari: 4.52. 220] Since the day Muhammad set foot in Medina, he started his campaign of terror. His followers have been doing the same ever since.

Muslims are intolerant, supremacist, bullies, and violent. They are highly inflammable and can explode if they are not treated preferentially and with respect. At the same time, they abuse others and violate the rights of people of other faiths. This is psychopathology.

To understand Muslims, one must understand their prophet. Muslims worship and emulate Muhammad. Islam is Muhammadanism. Only by understanding him can one know what makes them tick.

Understanding Muhammad is a psychobiography of Allah’s Prophet. It seeks to unveil the mystery of that man. Historians tell us Muhammad used to withdraw to a cave, spending days wrapped in his thoughts. He heard bells ringing and had ghostly visions. He thought he was demon possessed, until his wife reassured him he had become a prophet. Convinced of his status, he was intolerant of those who rejected him, assassinated those who criticized him, raided, looted, and massacred entire populations. He reduced thousands to slavery, raped, and allowed his men to rape female captives. All of this, he did with a clear conscience and a sense of entitlement.

He was magnanimous toward those who admired him, but vengeful toward those who did not. He believed he was the most perfect human creation and the universe’s raison d’être. Muhammad was no ordinary man. He was a narcissist. *
… cont’d" on this website: faithfreedom.org/book.htm
 
It sounds like I hit a chord with you. What is the matter? don’t like what you read?😛
Nothing. it was after a group of muslims hardliners in my country ran amok and attacked a peaceful demonstration by another **muslim group **who proposed a peaceful approach for the right of the Ahmadians in my country. I saw the news and It was disgusting. Those hardliners kept attacking those peaceful demonstrator although those demonstrator did not fight back. It was brutal and barbaric. So much for they call themselves as “Muslims Defenders”.
 
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