Church scandals, how do we as a church handle them?

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FrancisPio

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I’m going to try to update this thread with just the bare facts. You can check your own news sources for more information.
  1. Vatican archBishop Vincenzo Paglias mural inside a church. After this mural inside a church, pope Francis moved him up to the position of president of the Institute for Studies on Marriage and Family
  2. Last Christmas nativity scene which has ties to the LGBT community and apparently approved to be displayed by the Vatican. Jesus was NOT the center if this nativity scene, and the approval of the Vatican is disturbing.
  3. A photo by the Vatican was published seemly of a letter by Pope Benedict praising a series of booklets by Francis.
    Two lines were strangled blurred in the photo. Another paragraph was completely covered by the Francis booklets. It’s now been revealed that Benedict never read the series in full and criticized the authors involved. http://m.ncregister.com/blog/edward...dict-xvis-letter-to-mons.-vigano#.Wq1vL8plAQZ
 
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Hi, yes I do. I actually anticipated this very question. These topics are also discussed on National Catholic Register. I did not use them only because they are not available for free online. These events really occurred. Apparently, I can’t delete threads…Sorry, I find them all very disturbing but don’t really know who to talk about on these issue. After all, they are coming from those in highest authority in the church, and the church does nothing about them.
 
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FrancisPio said:
(deleted, the Vatican scandals are too disturbing to even talk about)
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Scandals? Does anyone read the Lives of the Saints anymore? We should be scandalized, we live in a world of sin. When we re-act to the shocking scandal of a priest (which we should), should we not in the same way re-act in the same way that happens in the world?

Anybody committing any sort of variety of sins that have rocked and scandalized the priesthood, should have the same re-action when it’s in the world. The re-action should be the same.

It should shock us more, though, when those things creep up upon priests. Consider the fact there were abuses way before the last two modern centuries. For when religious back in the hay day abused Tithes. And when a certain king came in control of the Church in England, to not only to divorce and marry who he wanted. But as well as had one or two killed. How about the saints who did very foolish and harmful things to other people? Or were greedy and lived a life of sin? Has anyone read Saint Augustine of Hippo’s Confessions?

We should be scandalized because sin exists in the world. The fight/battle against it, hasn’t stopped. And yes, we should be scandalized of what happened in the priesthood, and to the priests because that is not what it was, nor were they made for.

Children who came out of that abuse cycle (though there are enumerable other scandals done by priests.) But since this has been a focal point for many. Children who suffered are scandalized in seeing Christ. For, the abuse is traumatic. And that child will have such disruption to his or her own soul. That, wanting to receive Jesus at the hands of a priest, is most difficult. for them.

While not the same thing, but similarly. Could you imagine any Apostle, Disciple, or anyone receiving the Sacraments from the hands of Saint Peter after Jesus died? He denied Jesus three times. Saint Peter denied the priesthood, the covenantal foundation, and the Sacraments. For by denying Jesus, he denied everything. When he said, “I do not know this man.”; “I do not know what you are talking about.” He is saying I do not believe, out of fear. We should be scandalized. But, we should ask God then for the grace to remain in the Church. Any souls scandalized should remember Christ could only carry out His Mission and Mercy through a Scandal when Judas Iscariot sold him for pieces of silver. Sin exists, is real, and is harmful/devastating. But we must rely on God, on Christ, and what He instructed and shared. For if He wanted a priesthood or any religious to be operating without scandal, He never would’ve taken Cross, suffered, and died. And the Resurrection - conquering of sin and death - would not had happened either.
 
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I deleted my original post because sometimes the messenger is blamed for talking about scandals. Although the children abuse scandal was bad, I find these other scandals to be worse for me, because the people involved are not removed from their positions and in some cases appear to be given higher positions and of course, there’s no apology.
 
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But why would pope Francis moved up an archBishop to a higher position who is placing homosexual art inside of a church? I just can’t comprehend that. Why doesnt the pope remove someone like that from power?
 
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FrancisPio said:
But why would pope Francis moved up an archBishop to a higher position who is placing homosexual art inside of a church? I just can’t comprehend that. Why doesnt the pope remove someone like that from power?
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I would not guess the reason for doing so, and my personal opinion aside, I think his elevation was not tied to whatever he was doing personally.

The Church faithful should continue to pray for the Pope and any action that we may or may not agree personally.

God bless.
 
There has been scandal from the church in the beginning of her existence. Can you only imagine how the apostles and early Christians were mocked for following a savior who was sold by one of his own? The Bible even mentions when Simon was selling church things in the book of Acts. There has been scandal ALWAYS. If faith depended on the absence of scandal then there would be not a single believer of any faith on earth. Our job is to go to the source and aim of our faith, Our Lord. To love, to serve, and to trust Him. Also, to pray for those who cause the scandal, especially when these are church leaders.
 
Yes, but it’s so shocking to me that not only are the highest people in the church are so accepting of scandals but that the church itself isn’t in outrage. Where is the riot and yelling that someone would be moved up like that. It’s just outrageous to me. And now the Vatican is releasing a new stamp of a muscle bound Jesus with his shirt off for Easter. I wish action was taken instead of just prayers.
 
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I’ve created similar threads, and must say the church doesn’t handle scandal within their own ranks, i.e. religious ranks, particularly well. 😐

I won’t unpack it all again, as it was distressing as an Australian who is going through the outcome and fallout of the Royal Commission.

Perhaps new voices have new information/views? 🌷
 
You know, I am right with you. There was a time when I almost left the church because all the scandal. However, I guess that it took a big grace fron Our Lord and for Our Lady to help me. Saint Teresa of Avila and Daint Francis helped me so much. You see, when Saint Francis was around, I’m sure you’re familiar with the story, The Church was in such a bad place that Our Lord literally told Him to help Him keep His church from falling apart. Like you say, it is important to, like St. Francis, take action. Our best move is to become the Saints Our Mother so desperately needs. We need to pray, more than anything we need to pray. It really does suck, but that is all we really have to do ( along with action).
 
Not a very detailed article actually. The good bishop is being a bit vague…the mural is of the archbishop himself, embracing a man…that was drawn to look like a homosexual hairstylist, who lived nearby…The mural was in a catholic church and the archbishop supervised the project with the artist. I can understand a Bishop being corrupt, but why on Earth wasn’t he removed?
 
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Have you seen it?
Not my cup of tea… but he is a figure in a net,one of many. The face of the hairstylist isn t that one you mentioned. There is an interview of the artist as well somewhere.I read it months ago.
The mural has been there for 10 years or more,and 8 after he left that place…
Cannot say he is corrupt.
I do not like the mural, I prefer a different sort of art. Same with the Nativity,or Mercy Scene. Napolitan Art isn t my cup of tea either.
From there to corruption and defrocking or sacking there is a stretch .
Anyway,just meant to lead you to more direct sources,FrancisPio
 
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Okay. Understanding the extensive and effective process put into place by the US Bishops is an example to the Bishops Conferences in other countries. This document is a way to educate oneself.

Edit to add:

I realize now that this is a story that has been published by various blogs about a painting. The painting is a painting that reminds me of Bosch’s “The Last Judgement”, but, showing Christ casting a net to save those who are suffering, hurting.
 
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First, I would look for other sources of the story that scandalizes you. Lifesite pays their rent by clicks, and they are well known to exaggerate stories, they do not have rigorous fact checking as do more professional news organizations.

I have looked at the mural in question. It shows Christ as a “fisher of souls” saving those who are lost and broken and hurting.
 
Yet a new scandal. A letter was presented by Pope Benedict appearing to praise 11 booklets by Pope Francis. Yet a photo of the letter strangly blurs out two sentences out of one page, another page is hidden under Francis’s booklets.

Last week it was shown what was left out was that Benedict never actually read the books in order to give a full opinion.

Today the letter has grown even longer! A full paragraph was left out. Not nearly as complimentary as the start. I know many of your blame the reporter and not the report but the Vatican seems quite shady to me for doing such a thing. What’s worse, I doubt who ever doctored the letter will ever be removed from his position.

http://m.ncregister.com/blog/edward...dict-xvis-letter-to-mons.-vigano#.Wq1vL8plAQZ
 
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FrancisPio said:
Jesus was NOT the center if this nativity scene, and the approval of the Vatican is disturbing.
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Objectively speaking , that is a concern. And it doesn’t matter which media outlet it came from, if it is true.
 
I learned intellectually decades ago - about 6 decades, that in the last 2,000 years there have been a remarkable number of things which have occurred by laity, professed religious and the ordained which were contrary to God’s laws.

I learned emotionally, about 3 decades ago, that some of those things were done by people whom I knew.

And somewhere along the line, I figured out that letting myself become upset about the matters did noting other than damage my equanimity. I have had absolutely no power or control over such matters. Thus, dwelling on it, focusing on it, getting upset about it, or any other negative response did not change the matter, but it impacted my spiritual balance. In short, I realized the phrase “Let go and let God” was a practical way to pray, and then move on to matters over which I had some control.

And lest anyone think I have had nothing impact me, I have had a pastor die of AIDS, and another, years ago, with whom I rode to high school, who was (apparently) the first priest to be criminally convicted of sexually abusing boys.

So, frankly, whether or not the mural was appropriate or not does not concern me. that is so far above my pay grade that I do not concern myself about it.
 
Ive heard this argument, but I don’t see what good it does to ignore problems even if it helps you feel equanamity. People do wrong, but I’m talking about the Vatican as a whole, which is a different problem. And this problem has grown to a problem with theology which is important to me as a Catholic.
 
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