Church teaching on torrenting?

[AlanLeo]

Are there authoritative Church documents or statements of some sorts, on whether or not torrenting is a sin? The other threads on this subjects are just unsubstantiated personal opinions which don’t interest me.

 

[TheLittleLady]

You are talking about bootlegging music, video? When we steal from the owner of that music or video it is a sin. The culpability for that sin depends on the circumstances, that would be something you take to your confessor to help determine.

 

[AlanLeo]

You are talking about bootlegging music, video? When we steal from the owner of that music or video it is a sin. The culpability for that sin depends on the circumstances, that would be something you take to your confessor to help determine.

Do you have any Church documents on this?

 

[Tis_Bearself]

The other threads on this subjects are just unsubstantiated personal opinions which don’t interest me.

There’s nothing specific in the catechism about torrenting, so like most things, it is a matter of one’s personal conscience and the circumstances involved. That’s why the stuff you find on here is all personal opinions.

 

[AlanLeo]

There’s nothing specific in the catechism about torrenting, so like most things, it is a matter of one’s personal conscience and the circumstances involved. That’s why the stuff you find on here is all personal opinions.

That’s fair enough but personal consciences can be poorly formed and mislead others into error, and the problem is that they’re expressing their opinions so confidently without referring to any authoritative documents.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Once again, the Church has not written an “authoritative document” specifically on torrenting to my knowledge, so there’s nothing to cite.

 

[AlanLeo]

Once again, the Church has not written an “authoritative document” specifically on torrenting to my knowledge, so there’s nothing to cite.

Alright, thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut. I guess viewing copyrighted material boils down to whether it’s theft or not. It just doesn’t seem like a clear cut case of theft to me, as opposed to taking someone else’s wallet and then refusing to give it back. I mean viewing copyrighted materials aren’t taking property away from the owner since it’s abstract and practically infinite.

 

[Cruciferi]

I mean viewing copyrighted materials aren’t taking property away from the owner since it’s abstract and practically infinite.

You’re withholding revenue from the creators and their affiliates. You are robbing them of potential profits.

Unless it’s totally inaccessible and/or forgotten, you can usually download and acquire every piece of music or video Legally.

 

[CaptainPrudeman]

Torrenting as a way of downloading files is not in and of itself immoral because it’s literally just a way to send information between storage devices. If you use it to download stolen content, then that’s immoral. Not because of the torrent, but because of the stolen content.

 

[Beryllos]

. I mean viewing copyrighted materials aren’t taking property away from the owner since it’s abstract and practically infinite.

Sounds like your question is more generally about the morality of breaking copyright laws.

By the above remark, it looks like you’ve answered your own question. If you want a contrary opinion, may I suggest that you look at such copying and sharing as an inordinate attachment.

Someone is selling something. You don’t want to spend the money, or perhaps don’t have the money. What are the choices? You could live without it and feel perfectly fine about that. You choose to take it. Why? I guess because you can get away with it, and you’ve gotta have it. That’s beginning to sound like inordinate attachment.

 

[puer.dei]

It just doesn’t seem like a clear cut case of theft to me,

I expect you’d feel differently if it were you being deprived of legitimate royalties by a thief.

 

[AlanLeo]

You’re withholding revenue from the creators and their affiliates. You are robbing them of potential profits.

Unless it’s totally inaccessible and/or forgotten, you can usually download and acquire every piece of music or video Legally.

Streaming is legal in some countries at least, why is that okay and not downloading? The Marshall Islands have no copyright laws, is it then okay for them to download/stream? Also I don’t agree that I’m “robbing” anyone of anything, I’m not getting in the way of consumers paying for their product. Besides I’m also withholding revenue to the creators when I watch YouTube videos. Though to be fair if we do conclude that it is a sin I think the reason for that would be in that ball park.

Torrenting as a way of downloading files is not in and of itself immoral because it’s literally just a way to send information between storage devices. If you use it to download stolen content, then that’s immoral. Not because of the torrent, but because of the stolen content.

The “stolen” part is the more complicated part which needs further clarification IMO.

Sounds like your question is more generally about the morality of breaking copyright laws.

By the above remark, it looks like you’ve answered your own question. If you want a contrary opinion, may I suggest that you look at such copying and sharing as an inordinate attachment.

Someone is selling something. You don’t want to spend the money, or perhaps don’t have the money. What are the choices? You could live without it and feel perfectly fine about that. You choose to take it. Why? I guess because you can get away with it, and you’ve gotta have it. That’s beginning to sound like inordinate attachment.

I appreciate that you’re thinking outside the box but this is quite a stretch.

I expect you’d feel differently if it were you being deprived of legitimate royalties by a thief.

My feelings are irrelevant to the truth of the matter.

 

[CaptainPrudeman]

The “stolen” part is the more complicated part which needs further clarification IMO.

Is it your intellectual property? No. Did you pay for the rights to obtain it? No. Therefore, theft.

 

[AlanLeo]

Is it your intellectual property? No. Did you pay for the rights to obtain it? No. Therefore, theft.

What about the Marshall Islands? They have no copyright laws. Also streaming is legal in some countries so you can legally watch movies for free.

 

[Fauken]

What about the Marshall Islands? They have no copyright laws. Also streaming is legal in some countries so you can legally watch movies for free.

If theft is legal in a country, that doesn’t make it okay for us to steal now.

 

[AlanLeo]

If theft is legal in a country, that doesn’t make it okay for us to steal now.

You’re right, but now the argument has become circular. Because you’re using the law to define it as theft, but if according to other laws it’s not theft then how can it still be theft? Unless you have some kind of Church document that justifies your definition of theft. Which I am more than glad to read!

Look, I admit that intuitively it seems very much like theft, but when I actually think about I can’t really justify labelling it theft.

 

[Fauken]

You’re right, but now the argument has become circular. Because you’re using the law to define it as theft, but if according to other laws it’s not theft then how can it still be theft?

I’m not. The Church defines what theft is.

Look, I admit that intuitively it seems very much like theft, but when I actually think about I can’t really justify labelling it theft.

Then here’s a different perspective. I’m a software developer. I’ve been coding since high school, went to college for years, and spent more years working professionally to make good software. The software I use to make software in costs $500 alone, and that’s just one of my tools. Not to mention that it gets updated every two years, so occasionally, it gets upgraded. And we haven’t even discussed my payment yet.

Depending on what it is I make, it can take a few weeks to several months, or even years. I could be the only developer on the project, or there could be several of us. My employer makes money off of licensing what I create, which ultimately ends up in my pocket. So I don’t like it then when people rip my software and share it on the internet for others to use, and not pay me for it. I put good, honest labor into it, and just because it’s not tangible, doesn’t mean it’s any less theft. I am being denied proper payment for my work.

 

[CaptainPrudeman]

What about the Marshall Islands? They have no copyright laws.

Then if the intellectual property is from there, go ahead and get it for free. I assume it isn’t, so this point is meaningless.

 

[MNathaniel]

It just doesn’t seem like a clear cut case of theft to me, as opposed to taking someone else’s wallet and then refusing to give it back. I mean viewing copyrighted materials aren’t taking property away from the owner since it’s abstract and practically infinite.

It sounds like you’re not thinking of yourself as a potential customer who would otherwise be paying the producers for these things if you weren’t getting them for free from thieves.

A consideration you might not have thought of:

What if you just went without?

I mean literally. What might the side effects be if you committed to NEVER torrenting/downloading your entertainment in a way that is free for you but not what the creators intended?

Is it possible that after a few weeks or months of reading more books, spending more time outside, etc (which are great and worthwhile things in their own right!), you’d eventually feel like you really want to watch some particular movie or play some particular game you’ve heard about? And you’ll want this entertainment so much that you’re willing to pay the creators the money they request in exchange for having created and providing it?

Perhaps you don’t have much income right now. Maybe if you really want to enjoy certain entertainment so much that you’re willing to consider stealing to enjoy them, you might consider putting in whatever work is necessary to get a better paying job (or a bonus etc in your current job) so you can afford these entertainments you want.

My point is that you might not really realize how much (or little) these entertainments are worth to you, until you actually start going without anything you can’t pay for. And then once you’re going without, you can prioritize which entertainments are actually worth paying the money for (including maybe working more hours to gain extra income to pay the money for).

You might find an unintended consequence is a more balanced life where you spend more time away from a screen, but enjoy and appreciate screen-based entertainments all the more because you carefully selected and paid for them.

 

[TheLittleLady]

Will you tell that to my godson who works in the film industry? He pays his rent and feeds his child from the income that is protected by copyright.