Circumcision

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One thing that’s always confused me is the whole thing about circumcision. You hear it talked about a lot, and then it’s basically just a few sentences where God says a sign of this “covenant” is that all the males will be circumcised (I guess the “covenant” was that Abraham would have a lot of descendants?).

Reading around on Catholic Answers, I think I got that it was an “outward sign of their faith” or something. My question is, why circumcision though? I mean, it just seemed a little random, the act of cutting off a man’s penile foreskin. I guess that Deuteronomy and whatnot gave the Jews practical laws, like washing hands, but my question is, were STD’s and infections from grime under a man’s foreskin such a huge issue at the time that the entire sign of belonging to God had to be cutting of a man’s foreskin?

Seeing that people typically do not go around flashing their penises at other people, you’d think that the sign of belonging to God would be a more outward sign, like a large visible tattoo or something.

But, thinking further, I suspect as though tattoos and whatnot were more of a pagan thing or something and that the whole circumcision thing was meant to set the Jews apart from other people since perhaps not a lot of cultures did it on a regular basis back then, as well as establishing a practice with some health benefits.

I can see why they decided to get rid of it in the New Testament. Christianity was a religion for all people- people of all ages. It’d be pretty awkward… and painful… for someone who wasn’t a little kid to have their penile foreskin cut off. I mean, you hear in the Old Testament about how Abraham had all his slaves circumsized or something, but dang, they must’ve had to have like 50 people hold them down and drink a lot of wine or something to numb the pain. Plus, God thought beforehand and decided that becoming a Christian would just be a baptism by water- something painless, and definitely not something squeamish or unattractive like cutting off part of a man’s privates.

So basically, why circumcision?

-Snakemauler
 
Does anyone have any ideas?
If this is still a banned topic forgive me board administration.

Are you asking why God choose this as a method for Jews and why Muslims also feel commanded to circumsize?
 
I believe it’s only a banned topic if it’s being discussed as pro or anti circumcizing your current baby for nonreligious reasons (those threads get really mean and nasty).

I’m not sure. I’ve heard or read somewhere that it may have had something to do w/ hygiene, kind of the same as with them being forbidden to eat pork. Now, we know about bacteria, and how to cook pork and whatnot, but back then, if it was cooked wrong it could kill you. Maybe the same (secondary) purpose was behind the circumcision covenant. Bathing and hygiene being what they were, grown men may not have been able to keep themselves clean. Even though it wouldn’t have been an issue for babies and small children, whose foreskin doesn’t retract, it was commanded to do it at 8 days old because that’s when an infant’s blood can clot on it’s own, and it would be less painful and they wouldn’t remember it than waiting until hygiene did become an issue.

Just my thoughts, like I said, I don’t really know for sure.

In Christ,

Ellen
 
I can therorize that when God told his chosen people to do it their society expected their gods to demand sacrifices. And as sacrifices go it hits all heads of households but does not demand the life of a child. Muslims can explain their own reasons.
 
One thing that’s always confused me is the whole thing about circumcision. You hear it talked about a lot, and then it’s basically just a few sentences where God says a sign of this “covenant” is that all the males will be circumcised (I guess the “covenant” was that Abraham would have a lot of descendants?).

Reading around on Catholic Answers, I think I got that it was an “outward sign of their faith” or something. My question is, why circumcision though? I mean, it just seemed a little random, the act of cutting off a man’s penile foreskin. I guess that Deuteronomy and whatnot gave the Jews practical laws, like washing hands, but my question is, were STD’s and infections from grime under a man’s foreskin such a huge issue at the time that the entire sign of belonging to God had to be cutting of a man’s foreskin?

Seeing that people typically do not go around flashing their penises at other people, you’d think that the sign of belonging to God would be a more outward sign, like a large visible tattoo or something.

But, thinking further, I suspect as though tattoos and whatnot were more of a pagan thing or something and that the whole circumcision thing was meant to set the Jews apart from other people since perhaps not a lot of cultures did it on a regular basis back then, as well as establishing a practice with some health benefits.

I can see why they decided to get rid of it in the New Testament. Christianity was a religion for all people- people of all ages. It’d be pretty awkward… and painful… for someone who wasn’t a little kid to have their penile foreskin cut off. I mean, you hear in the Old Testament about how Abraham had all his slaves circumsized or something, but dang, they must’ve had to have like 50 people hold them down and drink a lot of wine or something to numb the pain. Plus, God thought beforehand and decided that becoming a Christian would just be a baptism by water- something painless, and definitely not something squeamish or unattractive like cutting off part of a man’s privates.

So basically, why circumcision?

-Snakemauler
Hi snakemauler,

Circumcision was not at all random, and Catholic theology has pondered the question very fully. I would encourage you to read through St. Thos. Aquinas’ lengthy sections in the Summa Theologica that are dedicated to the subject if you are inclined to a more complete treatment than is practical to provide here. Following is a selection from his writings in which he argued with three reasons for why circumcision was an appropriate Old Testament rite which provided spiritual remedies for the sin of Adam while being instructive of the problems we face as children of Adam.
It was fitting for circumcision to be performed on the virile member. First, because it was a sign of that faith whereby Abraham believed that Christ would be born of his seed. Secondly, because it was to be a remedy against original sin, which is contracted through the act of generation. Thirdly, because it was ordained as a remedy for carnal concupiscence, which thrives principally in those members, by reason of the abundance of venereal pleasure.
—Part III, Q. 70, art. 3, reply to objection #1.

newadvent.org/summa/4070.htm
 
Excellent list! I’ve learned more from this forum in about 2 days than I have at any other forum community.
 
I’m not sure. I’ve heard or read somewhere that it may have had something to do w/ hygiene, kind of the same as with them being forbidden to eat pork.
They lived in a desert.

Lots of sand.

Do I have to get more specific? 😃
 
They lived in a desert.

Lots of sand.

Do I have to get more specific? 😃
It would have been impractical to eat raise pork anyway since pigs are disgusting and eat everything and you need to utilize as much as you can get in a desert.

But I wasn’t thinking anything about Muslims and circucmcision. I was thinking entirely of Judaism, I wasn’t aware that Muslims did it too. But thanks for those resources, I’ll check them out.
 
So does ANYONE know any more about circumcision? I mean, the millions of people on here don’t have any specific reasons why God made it circumcision?
 
So does ANYONE know any more about circumcision? I mean, the millions of people on here don’t have any specific reasons why God made it circumcision?
Did you look at the entire corpus in the Summa that dealt with this subject? You find it lacking? St. Thomas Aquinas is a doctor of the Church. He was also a priest and theologian who pondered these matters as part of his vocation. Most of us are Catholic laypeople. Even if we were millions, why would you as a Catholic prefer our opinion if it was contrary to the “Angelic Doctor”?

In my opinion, most of the thinking has been done, and I accept what St. Thomas says in the Summa. It faithfully, and I would even say, beautifully reconciles an easily unappreciated Old Testament practice as a deep and meaninful shadow of New Testament mysteries in a way that it is very intellectually satisfying. I doubt very much that millions of lay Catholics in 2010 are going to come up with any better answers than have already been well known for a long, long time.

Rory
 
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