Circumcision

[Catholic80]

So today is the last of the octave of Christmas, … Christ’s circumcision. … which got me pondering the subject.

As a woman, I feel completely uneasy and disgust whenever I think of circumcision. My nephews are circumcised, and I saw the day they came home from the hospital after it, and my heart went out to them. They were in pain and their flesh was raw. I begged my sister not to do it, but she said it was for “health benefits.”

I can’t help but listen to my natural instincts and reactions when it comes to this matter and I have to wonder, why the HECK was it Jewish law/custom?!? Why did Christ endure this? Why, if it were so sacred, was it done away with? (I know what St. Paul says and I know what the OT says)

I just feel sick when I think about it, and when I think of my poor nephews. Why did God create this covenant? What does the Church say about the meaning behind this covenant? Was circumcision different than it is today?

It is the one thing I have the most difficulty understanding in our Faith’s history. To me it just seems like a mutilation.

I would greatly appreciate answers from people who are learned on this topic/area, rather than just opinions.

 

[ClearWater]

So today is the last of the octave of Christmas, … Christ’s circumcision. … which got me pondering the subject.

As a woman, I feel completely uneasy and disgust whenever I think of circumcision. My nephews are circumcised, and I saw the day they came home from the hospital after it, and my heart went out to them. They were in pain and their flesh was raw. I begged my sister not to do it, but she said it was for “health benefits.”

I can’t help but listen to my natural instincts and reactions when it comes to this matter and I have to wonder, why the HECK was it Jewish law/custom?!? Why did Christ endure this? Why, if it were so sacred, was it done away with? (I know what St. Paul says and I know what the OT says)

I just feel sick when I think about it, and when I think of my poor nephews. Why did God create this covenant? What does the Church say about the meaning behind this covenant? Was circumcision different than it is today?

It is the one thing I have the most difficulty understanding in our Faith’s history. To me it just seems like a mutilation.

I would greatly appreciate answers from people who are learned on this topic/area, rather than just opinions.

God told Abraham to be circumscised and the others. Abraham, immediately, ran out and did this to himself and the others as God ordered, without even once asking God, “Why?” That’s how Abraham was. He did as was ordered, no questions asked! That’s how great his faith was. He simply accepted God’s will, no matter how far out and implausible it might seem. Period.

God would later do one better and ask him to sacrifice his only son. Again, Abraham, being the man he was didn’t ask for any explanations, just went out and was all ready to do just that!

I have heard some say they thought the reason God Abraham do all this was because he didn’t seem to trust God to bring his heir through Sarah, that Abraham, instead, went through a slave, Hagar. Abraham saw it was taking a long time, that Sarah was sterile and old.

Some I have talked to say they thought that could have been the reason God asked that Abraham be circumscised, to remind him to have faith in all matters? I don’t know. Who knows the mind of God?

God asked for it, and that’s good enough for me. It also seems a lot how the animals had to be sacrificed and more. However, everything taken in context, it all seemed to be almost like a kind of foreshadowing if you ask me. It seemed like preparation for Christ in so many ways.

Later, when John the Baptist came, there seemed to be a transition towards baptism and began to move away from circumscision.

As to why Christ endured the circumscision, the crucifixión, that’s an excellent question. He wasn’t exempt from any of the rules or suffering, so it would seem. He had the the old way, circumscision, AND the new way, baptism. In fact, Christ seemed to transition from the old to the new.

 

[judynurse]

A very good reason, from a medical/health standpoint for circumcision is that the area under the foreskin is both warm and moist, and a great breeding ground for bacteria, unless cleansed AT LEAST DAILY. Another reason for circumcision in the Middle East is the dust, heat and sand, which gets under the foreskin, often causing serious sores and infections. With circumcision, this danger is eliminated. That’s why modern medicine recommends it. It’s healthier, prevents infections and sores even in a modern society with cleaner living conditions. It also eliminates the possible tearing of the foreskin, which can occur even in conjugal sexual relations, requiring an adult circumcision, which is a lot more painful. Babies have very little pain from such a procedure, so long as they are changed very frequently and usually a medication (a gel or ointment) is applied to the area to prevent soreness from urine until it heals within a week or so. There are very few nerves in the foreskin of a newborn, only at the base where it is attached, so pain is actually minimal. It will prevent infections and the development of sores beneath the foreskin, particularly in an infant.

As to why it was done to Jesus, it was a requirement of the Covenant, and all Jewish sons were circumcised on the 8th day after birth (which by the way, is the day when certain cells and other items in the blood stream increase the rapidity of healing, and also eliminate most of the pain). Remember, Jesus was born a Jew!

Why they do this on the 2nd day after birth is for the convenience of the Doctors, who can do it before the Mother takes the newborn home that day or the next. It should actually be done on the 8th day after birth for best results.

 

[runningdude]

Later, when John the Baptist came, there seemed to be a transition towards baptism and began to move away from circumcision.

John the Baptist preached ritual washings, which were always part of Judaism in parallel to other rites such as circumcision.

 

[judynurse]

John the Baptist preached ritual washings, which were always part of Judaism in parallel to other rites such as circumcision.

Ritual cleansing by water was a long known custom among the Jews, and still is. What was different about John was what he preached about the ritual with the water – it wasn’t just for the usual ritual cleansing, but a one time only dedication to God. Very good comparison, to point out that ritual washings were also a part of Judaism, as was circumcision

 

[oldcelt]

A very good reason, from a medical/health standpoint for circumcision is that the area under the foreskin is both warm and moist, and a great breeding ground for bacteria, unless cleansed AT LEAST DAILY. Another reason for circumcision in the Middle East is the dust, heat and sand, which gets under the foreskin, often causing serious sores and infections. With circumcision, this danger is eliminated. That’s why modern medicine recommends it. It’s healthier, prevents infections and sores even in a modern society with cleaner living conditions. It also eliminates the possible tearing of the foreskin, which can occur even in conjugal sexual relations, requiring an adult circumcision, which is a lot more painful. Babies have very little pain from such a procedure, so long as they are changed very frequently and usually a medication (a gel or ointment) is applied to the area to prevent soreness from urine until it heals within a week or so. There are very few nerves in the foreskin of a newborn, only at the base where it is attached, so pain is actually minimal. It will prevent infections and the development of sores beneath the foreskin, particularly in an infant.

As to why it was done to Jesus, it was a requirement of the Covenant, and all Jewish sons were circumcised on the 8th day after birth (which by the way, is the day when certain cells and other items in the blood stream increase the rapidity of healing, and also eliminate most of the pain). Remember, Jesus was born a Jew!

Why they do this on the 2nd day after birth is for the convenience of the Doctors, who can do it before the Mother takes the newborn home that day or the next. It should actually be done on the 8th day after birth for best results.

In other words, the foreskin is a poor design.

 

[Cathoholic]

Catholic80. You wondered WHY Circumcision?

Nobody knows for sure but here is what Scott Hahn has pointed out is probable concerning WHY Circumcision.

Think about what happened with Abram (Abraham) and the Covenant God made with him concerning his “descendants” being numerous (see Genesis 15).

GENESIS 15:1-6 1 After these things the word of the LORD came to Abram in a vision, “Fear not, Abram, I am your shield; your reward shall be very great.” 2 But Abram said, “O Lord GOD, what wilt thou give me, for I continue childless, and the heir of my house is Eliezer of Damascus?” 3 And Abram said, “Behold, thou hast given me no offspring; and a slave born in my house will be my heir.” 4 And behold, the word of the LORD came to him, “This man shall not be your heir; your own son shall be your heir.” 5 And he brought him outside and said, “Look toward heaven, and number the stars, if you are able to number them.” Then he said to him, “So shall your descendants be.” 6 And he believed the LORD; and he reckoned it to him as righteousness.

It is possible Abram’s faith later wavered because look what eventually occurs.

What? Abram’s wife Sarai suggested he just “go into” her Egyptian slave Hagar.

GENESIS 16:1-3 1 Now Sarai, Abram’s wife, bore him no children. She had an Egyptian maid whose name was Hagar; 2 and Sarai said to Abram, “Behold now, the LORD has prevented me from bearing children; go in to my maid; it may be that I shall obtain children by her.” And Abram hearkened to the voice of Sarai.

We both know what Abraham went into Hagar with (then all of a sudden that same aspect of Abram [Abram’s foreskin] now gets directly involved in the Covenant).

Abraham was later told explicitly it is his elderly wife Sarai who is to conceive and bear this son of the promise making it clear it is also on God’s timing.

Initially after Abram’s venture into Hagar, his believing didn’t seem quite so easy and strong as it was before (sin has effects).

When God told Abraham it was his wife that he was to have this child with, he fell down on his face laughing AT WHAT God told him (Genesis 17:17).

GENESIS 17:14-19 14 Any uncircumcised male who is not circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin shall be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant." 15 And God said to Abraham, “As for Sarai your wife, you shall not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall be her name. 16 I will bless her, and moreover I will give you a son by her; I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of peoples shall come from her.” 17 Then Abraham fell on his face and laughed, and said to himself, “Shall a child be born to a man who is a hundred years old? Shall Sarah, who is ninety years old, bear a child?” 18 And Abraham said to God, “O that Ishmael might live in thy sight!” 19 God said, "No, but Sarah your wife shall bear you a son, and you shall call his name Isaac. I will establish my covenant with him as an everlasting covenant for his descendants after him.

Circumcision serves as an implicit but radical reminder of what to do and what not to do (don’t use this high calling as a pretext to fornicate) when God calls you to something great.

Do people sometimes really use their high-callings as an excuse to fornicate?

Think King David. Think many modern-day politicians.

Be thankful the fulfillment of Circumcision is Baptism (Colossians 2).

We are now to put on the circumcision of Christ. We are now to put on Baptism. Baptism is the fulfillment of Circumcision.

COLOSSIANS 2:11-14 11 In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of flesh in the circumcision of Christ; 12 and you were buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead. 13 And you, who were dead in trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, 14 having canceled the bond which stood against us with its legal demands; this he set aside, nailing it to the cross.

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[Deus_tecum]

A very good reason, from a medical/health standpoint for circumcision is that the area under the foreskin is both warm and moist, and a great breeding ground for bacteria, unless cleansed AT LEAST DAILY. Another reason for circumcision in the Middle East is the dust, heat and sand, which gets under the foreskin, often causing serious sores and infections. With circumcision, this danger is eliminated. That’s why modern medicine recommends it. It’s healthier, prevents infections and sores even in a modern society with cleaner living conditions. It also eliminates the possible tearing of the foreskin, which can occur even in conjugal sexual relations, requiring an adult circumcision, which is a lot more painful. Babies have very little pain from such a procedure, so long as they are changed very frequently and usually a medication (a gel or ointment) is applied to the area to prevent soreness from urine until it heals within a week or so. There are very few nerves in the foreskin of a newborn, only at the base where it is attached, so pain is actually minimal. It will prevent infections and the development of sores beneath the foreskin, particularly in an infant.

Beheading prevents brain cancer but at what cost? The health issues from being uncircumcised are almost nil for those who practice normal hygiene. Do we remove the teeth to prevent cavities? No, we teach kids to brush.

 

[George_Stegmeir]

So today is the last of the octave of Christmas, … Christ’s circumcision. … which got me pondering the subject.

As a woman, I feel completely uneasy and disgust whenever I think of circumcision. My nephews are circumcised, and I saw the day they came home from the hospital after it, and my heart went out to them. They were in pain and their flesh was raw. I begged my sister not to do it, but she said it was for “health benefits.”

I can’t help but listen to my natural instincts and reactions when it comes to this matter and I have to wonder, why the HECK was it Jewish law/custom?!? Why did Christ endure this? Why, if it were so sacred, was it done away with? (I know what St. Paul says and I know what the OT says)

I just feel sick when I think about it, and when I think of my poor nephews. Why did God create this covenant? What does the Church say about the meaning behind this covenant? Was circumcision different than it is today?

It is the one thing I have the most difficulty understanding in our Faith’s history. To me it just seems like a mutilation.

I would greatly appreciate answers from people who are learned on this topic/area, rather than just opinions.

I am uncut because when I was born the NAZIs were running amok in Europe, and their test of whether or not a man or child was Jewish was to pull down his pants and look. If you were circumcised you were considered to be Jewish and they took you away and you were never seen again. My parents very likely saved my life by not having me cut. My brother who was born in the US 2 years after me was circumcised. We are not Jewish.

 

[runningdude]

Ritual cleansing by water was a long known custom among the Jews, and still is. What was different about John was what he preached about the ritual with the water – it wasn’t just for the usual ritual cleansing, but a one time only dedication to God. Very good comparison, to point out that ritual washings were also a part of Judaism, as was circumcision

However, John the Baptist did not perform Christian baptisms. He merely foreshadowed the washing away of sins brought by Christ; his was not yet the “one time dedication to God”.

 

[Gorgias]

Beheading prevents brain cancer but at what cost? The health issues from being uncircumcised are almost nil for those who practice normal hygiene. Do we remove the teeth to prevent cavities? No, we teach kids to brush.

Beheading tends to have somewhat negative effects on longevity; pulling teeth makes it rather difficult to chew. Circumcision creates exactly what physical difficulties in men?

 

[oldcelt]

Beheading tends to have somewhat negative effects on longevity; pulling teeth makes it rather difficult to chew. Circumcision creates exactly what physical difficulties in men?

Several, but the main one is decreased sensitivity that can lead to impotence.

 

[Yetzirah]

Circumcision is in fact mutilation. There is no medical reason for circumcision whatsoever, what’s more it can result in the loss of sensitivity in the nerves and even hurt the proper function of the organ. I believe it’s evil to circumcise ones baby because 1: you’re mutilating His body for no reason whatsoever (but vanity) and 2: It’s against nature

 

[oldcelt]

Circumcision is in fact mutilation. There is no medical reason for circumcision whatsoever, what’s more it can result in the loss of sensitivity in the nerves and even hurt the proper function of the organ. I believe it’s evil to circumcise ones baby because 1: you’re mutilating His body for no reason whatsoever (but vanity) and 2: It’s against nature

Agreed…what a wonderful welcome to the world. At least many Doctors have stopped smacking babies the moment they are born. However, this anachronistic procedure remains to be forced on little boys in the first few days of their life.

Outlaw it except for truly religious reasons.