City of God Purgatory Question

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This question may be quite narrow in scope, but I’m hoping a some of you will be interested in helping me with it.

Being directed to early writings concerning purgatory and prayers for those in purgatory, I came across something St. Augustine wrote in “City of God”. Here’s the pertinent quote:

“But temporary punishments are suffered by some in this life only, by others after death, by others both now and then; but all of them before that last and strictest judgment. But of those who suffer temporary punishments after death, all are not doomed to those everlasting pains which are to follow that judgment; for to some, as we have already said, what is not remitted in this world is remitted in the next, that is, they are not punished with the eternal punishment of the world to come.”
That’s from City of God Book 21 Ch. 13

I’ve read some more in that book, trying to get the context, and it’s really good, especially Chapter 26. Of course it’s good, it’s Augustine!

So, my understanding of purgatory being somewhat limited, but certainly well informed rather than misinformed, I understand purgatory to be a “domain” of punishment and purging for and of desires to sin in this earthly life. For as no impure thing can enter into Heaven, so must our desires be pure also. Though we may have Christ as our foundation, if we love the world in a still impure manner (though not guilty of mortal sin) at times, we have “wood and stubble” that must be purged from the building of our life that we erected upon the foundation of Christ. And I also understand that Purgatory is only for Christians, those who are destined to eternal glory in Christ.

So, my question is, when Augustine said** “of those who suffer temporary punishments after death, all are not doomed to those everlasting pains which are to follow that judgment.” **should I understand that there he’s saying that there are people in purgatory that will be doomed to everlasting pains following the judgement?
 
No…its just a peculiar way of ancient writers in how they speak

He’s saying ALL are NOT doomed…that is ALL those in purgatory

Once we land in purgatory, there is no chance to be damned. We may suffer severe purifications (according to sins forgiven but not PAID for in full yet) but we are SAVED. ALL souls in purgatory, despite whatever they may be expiating in suffering are 100% HAPPY…cause they know heaven IS their reward.
 
Reformed Rob:
Here’s the pertinent quote:

“But temporary punishments are suffered by some in this life only, by others after death, by others both now and then; but all of them before that last and strictest judgment. But of those who suffer temporary punishments after death, all are not doomed to those everlasting pains which are to follow that judgment; for to some, as we have already said, what is not remitted in this world is remitted in the next, that is, they are not punished with the eternal punishment of the world to come.”
That’s from City of God Book 21 Ch. 13
Click to expand...
IMHO, Augustine is referring to the temperal sufferings of both the damned in Hell and the elect in Purgatory before the General Judgment.
 
Ok, thanks for those 2 replies! It helps and they seem very legitimate. Like, I thought after posting, that maybe he’s referring to the fact that non-Christians are punished temporarily before the final Judgement, and so it’s right to say that of those who suffer temporary punishments after death, all are not doomed to eternal punishment, because those in purgatory will be glorified, and those suffering, who are not in purgatory will be condemned.

Thank you so much for that clarification!
 
Reformed Rob:
This question may be quite narrow in scope, but I’m hoping a some of you will be interested in helping me with it.

Being directed to early writings concerning purgatory and prayers for those in purgatory, I came across something St. Augustine wrote in “City of God”. Here’s the pertinent quote:

“But temporary punishments are suffered by some in this life only, by others after death, by others both now and then; but all of them before that last and strictest judgment. But of those who suffer temporary punishments after death, all are not doomed to those everlasting pains which are to follow that judgment; for to some, as we have already said, what is not remitted in this world is remitted in the next, that is, they are not punished with the eternal punishment of the world to come.”
That’s from City of God Book 21 Ch. 13

I’ve read some more in that book, trying to get the context, and it’s really good, especially Chapter 26. Of course it’s good, it’s Augustine!

So, my understanding of purgatory being somewhat limited, but certainly well informed rather than misinformed, I understand purgatory to be a “domain” of punishment and purging for and of desires to sin in this earthly life. For as no impure thing can enter into Heaven, so must our desires be pure also. Though we may have Christ as our foundation, if we love the world in a still impure manner (though not guilty of mortal sin) at times, we have “wood and stubble” that must be purged from the building of our life that we erected upon the foundation of Christ. And I also understand that Purgatory is only for Christians, those who are destined to eternal glory in Christ.

So, my question is, when Augustine said** “of those who suffer temporary punishments after death, all are not doomed to those everlasting pains which are to follow that judgment.” **should I understand that there he’s saying that there are people in purgatory that will be doomed to everlasting pains following the judgement?
Click to expand...
I read it the same way you did. Hear are my thoughts. He is contrasting “Temporary Punishment” and the “Eternal Punishment” that comes after the Last Judgement. So the punishments of the just are purgatorial in nature. That of the damned, penal. As an analogy… If one robs a bank and is arrested, they will go to jail. But jail is “temporary” because then comes court ( the Judgement) and then Prison. Those who are damned now are in a “temporary” jail. Those who are being purified of their sins dont go to Court. Therefore he is correct in that those who suffer temporary punishments after death, all are not doomed to those everlasting pains which are to follow that judgment.
 
Of course not. We understand that all souls in purgatory are destined for Heaven. That is why they’re there - to be prepared for Heaven.
Reformed Rob:
This question may be quite narrow in scope, but I’m hoping a some of you will be interested in helping me with it.

Being directed to early writings concerning purgatory and prayers for those in purgatory, I came across something St. Augustine wrote in “City of God”. Here’s the pertinent quote:

“But temporary punishments are suffered by some in this life only, by others after death, by others both now and then; but all of them before that last and strictest judgment. But of those who suffer temporary punishments after death, all are not doomed to those everlasting pains which are to follow that judgment; for to some, as we have already said, what is not remitted in this world is remitted in the next, that is, they are not punished with the eternal punishment of the world to come.”
That’s from City of God Book 21 Ch. 13

I’ve read some more in that book, trying to get the context, and it’s really good, especially Chapter 26. Of course it’s good, it’s Augustine!

So, my understanding of purgatory being somewhat limited, but certainly well informed rather than misinformed, I understand purgatory to be a “domain” of punishment and purging for and of desires to sin in this earthly life. For as no impure thing can enter into Heaven, so must our desires be pure also. Though we may have Christ as our foundation, if we love the world in a still impure manner (though not guilty of mortal sin) at times, we have “wood and stubble” that must be purged from the building of our life that we erected upon the foundation of Christ. And I also understand that Purgatory is only for Christians, those who are destined to eternal glory in Christ.

So, my question is, when Augustine said** “of those who suffer temporary punishments after death, all are not doomed to those everlasting pains which are to follow that judgment.” **should I understand that there he’s saying that there are people in purgatory that will be doomed to everlasting pains following the judgement?
Click to expand...
 
Sounds to me like Augustine is giving the Orthodox view on the particular judgement: THat nothing is set in stone until judgement day. Basically, when all people die, they are judged according to what they did and have a foretaste of their eternal reward: THe righteous to paradise, and the unrighteous to torments. HOWEVER, since the Last judgement is not yet upon them, the fate of those who are tormented is not yet set in stone. This being the case, prayer for the dead can aid those in the place of torment and cause their standing to change on the last day. So those who cross the chasm can say “WE were in purgatory.” And those who remain and are thrown into The lake of fire “We were always in hell.” THis is the View of C.S. Lewis in the Great divorce by the way. DOes this necessarily contradict the Catholic faith?
 
a good friend of mine (who has since died), and i both said the same thing. “if you make it to purgatory, you got it made!”
 
It might be helpful to do a thread search in some of the other forums such as apologetics or some of the others, and you might get more responses if you post there
 
I think Purgatory is available for all souls who do not either merit Heaven immediately or merit Hell, reagrdless of whether they are Christian or non-Christian.

The rightgeous of any faith are acceptable to God either for Heaven or for Purgatory. So even a self professed agnostic such as Carl Sagan, if he leads an upright life, I think is likely to end up in Purgatory or even Heaven if they follow moral principles.

It makes sense that God would not punish folks simply because they could not find or believe in evidence that God exists. If they are otherwise good and loving people, I think God will make allowances for them.

Just my humble opinion…

wc
 
One of the biggest Fears I have about the whole issue of God’s mercy is that I think WE overplay it sometimes. God IS merciful, but we as Catholics can be so nuanced and make so many Possible or probable exceptions for people that it seems to dillute the simple truth. If you reject Christ, You go to Hell. IF you are Righteous in HIS eyes according to HIS standards you will end up in heaven eventually.

Also, the whole Ecumenical Issue: ONly the Catholic Church IS the Mystical Body of Christ. Others SHARE in that body by the degree of their participation in the truth. Why do we treat other religions like we are MISSING out??? THEY left us, and if they separate themselves from the True body, it’s no less true. SO why flip out about being Ecumenical? The Catholic Church is watering down alot of Doctrine in the names of TOlerance, Ecumenism, and Fair play.

WHAT HAPPENED TO OUR ANATHEMAS?!
 
Miserere Mei...:
One of the biggest Fears I have about the whole issue of God’s mercy is that I think WE overplay it sometimes. God IS merciful, but we as Catholics can be so nuanced and make so many Possible or probable exceptions for people that it seems to dillute the simple truth. If you reject Christ, You go to Hell. IF you are Righteous in HIS eyes according to HIS standards you will end up in heaven eventually.

Also, the whole Ecumenical Issue: ONly the Catholic Church IS the Mystical Body of Christ. Others SHARE in that body by the degree of their participation in the truth. Why do we treat other religions like we are MISSING out??? THEY left us, and if they separate themselves from the True body, it’s no less true. SO why flip out about being Ecumenical? The Catholic Church is watering down alot of Doctrine in the names of TOlerance, Ecumenism, and Fair play.

WHAT HAPPENED TO OUR ANATHEMAS?!
Click to expand...
:amen:
 
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