Civil marriage for Catholics?

[katybird]

I have a question regarding civil marriages.

I am right in assuming that two Catholics who are married at a courthouse aren’t really married, and to have sex would be fornication, right?

If there is a situation involving visas and immigration that would be easier with a marriage certificate, is it at all OK to have a civil marriage, but not consumate anything until you’re truly married in the Church? Are you allowed to have a nuptual Mass if the legal marriage certificate is already a few weeks old?

 

[Catholic2003]

Is the couple being honest and upfront with the government about their “sham” civil marriage, i.e., that because of their faith they won’t consider themselves to be married until and unless the Catholic ceremony takes place? And that if for some reason the Catholic ceremony doesn’ t take place, the couple won’t consider themselves to really be married at all.

If not, then I see some problems with the plan. I don’t think the Church likes to participate in fraud.

 

[CARose]

A Catholic marriage includes all the legal documents necessary for a civil ceremony, so I don’t see why such an option would be appropriate.

You may want to take a look at the CCC from article 1621 - 1632 for more on the importance of the marriage celebration.

CARose

 

[katybird]

Catholic2003:

Is the couple being honest and upfront with the government about their “sham” civil marriage, i.e., that because of their faith they won’t consider themselves to be married until and unless the Catholic ceremony takes place? And that if for some reason the Catholic ceremony doesn’ t take place, the couple won’t consider themselves to really be married at all.

If not, then I see some problems with the plan. I don’t think the Church likes to participate in fraud.

I’m not sure that it would be a sham marriage. But getting married in the Church and then applying for visas could make for several months of trouble and expense. This is for a UK spouse settlement visa. There is a UK fiance visa, but there would be the problem of the US citizen having nowhere to live until the wedding night.

There are possible problems anticipated with the visa that might delay things. You have to apply to find out. Normally, a spousal visa takes one week to process, but if there are further questions regarding finances, dependent children, and background checks, it could take up to three months. There is a fair chance that the visa will be denied. You have to be married before you can apply for the visa.If the marriage were consumated, the woman could be pregnant and in limbo. It would be better if the visa were in hand prior to consumating the marriage.

Not to mention all the logistics of planning a wedding. Planning anything at all would be easier if the visa were squared away, first.

I’m just looking for the easiest way to do things. We still have to talk to the priest, anyway. There’s a six-month waiting period, of course, and no weddings during Lent. Plus, we’re not sure how pre-Cana will be done. I know a woman in another diocese who simply requires that her British fiance shows up once a month for pre-Cana things. Not sure how Cincinnati will do it.

 

[CARose]

It sounds like you really do need to talk to your priest about it.

Is your fiance’ someone you only know via a long distance relationship or did you know him while either you, he or the both lived elsewhere?

Anyways, it seems that your question would be much better answered by your priest who can ask you all the necessary questions to ensure that you are given the correct answer.

May I suggest that you seek to find the answer that serves the both of you best in the long term, not simply the most expedient way to ensure you get through customs in the quickest manner possible. You will be married for a lifetime, for better or for worse, and if it requires taking an extra 6 months to ensure that you have adequate time to go through the pre-cana process correctly, I would highly recommend that you do so. This is a life changing decision, as this is the person with whom you are committing to spending the rest of your life. It may seem like an obvious decision, but I assure you, it is well worth your time to go through a very thorough discernment process. You may save yourself a lifetime of regret or hardships.

God Bless, and best of wishes as you determine the course to follow.

CARose

 

[Mercy_Alvarenga]

Katybird~

A little background on where I’m coming from…

I’m an American woman married to a Guatemalan man. We were married in February and we’re still waiting on the visa, which should finally be granted the 23rd of this month. In the event that it is not granted, I will move to Guatemala, where I can legally stay for the rest of my life as long as I leave once every 90 days.

Since we were both poorly catechised, we weren’t aware at the time of our marriage that a civil marriage would be invalid (the pastor of my childhood parish was not at all orthodox). Our parish priest in Guatemala outright told me we that our civil marriage was just fine. So we were married by the mayor in Chimaltenango, Guatemala, and the marriage was consummated. (and I am indeed pregnant and “in limbo”) After I returned to the states I found out that our marriage was invalid and we have agreed to live as brother and sister when my husband arrives, until we can have our marriage convalidated in the Church.

In a way it’s very lucky we were ignorant at the time. I didn’t have the kind of money necessary to live jobless in Guatemala for 6 additional months in order to complete classes at our parish church and be married there. I had already been there 9 months. Yet consummation of the marriage is a requirement for an IR1 spousal visa to United States. In the US government’s eyes, no consummation = no marriage. You may want to check into the requirements for your visa.

CARose’s suggestion of taking the time to go through pre-Cana is a good one. But I know it may be very impractical or downright impossible in your situation. It certainly wouldn’t have worked for me. I’m not in the kind of income bracket that would allow me to live for that long in a country where I can’t legally work. Flying to Guatemala once a month to participate in classes would have taken my entire income as well, leaving me with nothing to pay for the visa process, which is also very costly. But if you can do it… by all means!

If I’d been informed regarding the validity of a civil marriage, I would have chosen the fiance visa route. You say that would be very difficult for you as well… but I very much hope there is some way to work this out. I’ll be praying for you! I can understand how tough your situation is.

 

[katybird]

I definitely have no intention of consumating an invalid marriage.

I don’t know what the UK has to say about unconsumated marriages. I’ve never heard of them asking, and I’ve done a lot of research on it.

I’ve heard from someone that Cincinnati will allow the two parties to do pre-cana preparation separately when necessary, and together when possible - he with his priest, me with mine.

I do feel as if I am in a bit of a hurry, because it is very hard for me to support my son alone here, and we don’t have any health care or anything like that. And, I’d like to be able to get my son a father while he’s still young enough to bond.

But, those are not good reasons to hurry, so I will try to slow things down.