Claim: Islam is NOT a religion of peace (blog post)

[AbeOman]

And you call that being honest? :dancing:

Moslem is an English form of Muslim. You may have noticed I use the word Koran, too!
Mos·lem
n. Variant of Muslim.
dictionary.reference.com/browse/moslem

Even if not one single person was killed, the fact you threaten them with death is a compulsion!

:ehh:

Get out town man, this is the correct one…Muslim (defs. 1, 2).
since the word is translated from Arabic and in Arabic it’s Mu…“M” U" as we don’t have “O” in Arabic. why changed…? stick to the correct translation form the original word, don’t you agree with me…?

 

[Rodrigo_Bivar]

**Thanks, this goes to the heart of what have learned in my bible study courses and I do agree with you.

However, there laws or instructions or teachings prescribed in the bible that are not practiced today by Christians of any denominations, now does that mean Christians do select certain teachings of the bible and disregard other parts…?

from what I know some will say yes while many say no.

Thanks for the well informed (name removed by moderator)ut.**

You’d find that the Christians do not follow the OT verses as in Leviticus and Deuteronomy.

 

[AbeOman]

You’d find that the Christians do not follow the OT verses as in Leviticus and Deuteronomy.

**I know that but at the same time verses from the OT are used when dealing with specific issue and applied to clarify specific verse in the NT, For example, (John 8:58–59), most learned theologians amply refer and heavily relied on (Exodus 3:14) from an OT.
But let me ask you and please forgive me if you think I’m imposing on you, what parts of OT you don’t believe and why…?
Does OT mean to you the 5 books of Moses (Peace and Blessings of God Almighty be upon him) in other words, what this included or excluded in the OT…?

Thanks so much for your time and patience,
God bless. **

 

[Rodrigo_Bivar]

The terms, “Old Testament” and “New Testament” are very clear.

It is also undeniable that the NT is a successor of the OT, so when some people link the two as in John 8:58, they are not saying that the NT says to follow Leviticus and Deuteronomy.

When you complete your Bible study you will find no verses in the NT prescribing hatred and violence like you will find in the Quran. Because they don’t exist.

 

[Montalban]

Thanks, now we are getting somewhere, so you don’t believe in the OT…? and we shall stick to only NT and if so in which bible do you want me to show you from…? this is simplification, in which denomination’s bible, I mean Catholic, Protestants, LDS, Jehovah’s, orthodox, Coptic, Eastern Churches (Arabic Bibles), etc…?

It’s not a matter of not believing in it. It’s a question of right believing. And, first, before I go any further, I’m giving you a lot of lee-way here because this thread is not an apology for Chrisitanity, but one for Islam - you’re doing what all other Moslems do - when we start to talk about the Koran, they stop the discussion, and turn it to other issues, such as in this case, alleged Christian violence.

But, 'cause you’re new here, I’m giving you the benefit of the doubt… that it’s an honest attempt of yours to understand the Christian position.

Here’s a start.

Some ‘examples’ given in the OT are simply accounts of what happened, not what is meant to happen. Lot sleeping with his daughters is an example of what did happen, not what is meant to happen.

As for the laws; the 10 Commandments were given at the time of the book of Exodus. The expanded version, such as in Leviticus, if it were meant for all time, would have been given to Adam.

Jesus gave us a fuller understanding of God’s will.

For example, in Leviticus, there’s a very limited idea on who we’re supposed to look after…
Leviticus. 19:18

" 'Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against one of your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD.

Love your ‘neighbour’. Jesus deals with this directly.

Matthew 5:43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,

Jesus is showing us that we’re not just meant to love our neighbour, but everyone… even those that attack us.

Even when he uses the term ‘neighbour’ he broadens it when asked a question

Luke 10:29

But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, “And who is my neighbour?”

He then gives the story of the Good Samaritan, knowing fully that those listening despised the Samaritans.

 

[Montalban]

Get out town man, this is the correct one…Muslim (defs. 1, 2).
since the word is translated from Arabic and in Arabic it’s Mu…“M” U" as we don’t have “O” in Arabic. why changed…? stick to the correct translation form the original word, don’t you agree with me…?

I don’t speak Arabic. I speak English. In English *Moslem *is an appropriate variant on the word. It is appropriate, I’ve shown you this. I use it. In English we used to have other variants: Mussulman, Musselman, or Mussulmaun. These are no longer considered valid

This tiny argument of yours has happened a couple of times; I thus keep this resource handy; the word Moslem, as used *by *Moslems

moslem.org/

American Moslem Foundation
oz.net/~msarram/
A German site…
moslem.de/

Here’s another Moslem site using the term Moslem…
ranti.com/en/working_dress.html
This site gives advice on Moselm dress.

Another site talking about Moslem beliefs
experiencefestival.com/moslem_beliefs

Arabic News…
OIC exposes its actions to back Moslem minorities
arabicnews.com/ansub/Daily/Day/030408/2003040828.html

Yemen Times…
“On the occasion of the Holy Month of Ramadhan, aside from the worship rites and duties ascribed to the month for Moslems to engage in throughout the world, Ramadhan is also a month of reflection and meditation, in which Moslems should take a hard look at themselves.”
yementimes.com/article.shtml?i=883&p=opinion&a=1

MOM, WHAT IS A MOSLEM?
balcad.com/mom.shtml

utc.edu/Faculty/Bill-Wright/mossci2.htm
is a secular site using the term in praising Islam.

and as you’re into on-line encyclopeidas…
encyclopedia.com/html/X/X-M1oslem.asp
This encyclopedia site has lots of links to Moselm items, such as Moslem weddings.

tiscali.co.uk/reference/encyclopaedia/hutchinson/m0009781.html
This one says it’s just an alternative spelling

4panda.com/special/muslim/index.htm
This site gives Moslem tour packages (hate to sound incredulous, but they’d not be doing too much business if they were insulting their customers).

Both Moslem and Muslim are correct, but the second is now more common than the first. The term Mohammedan is considered offensive by many Muslims and is best avoided.
allwords.com/word-Moslem.html

 

[AbeOman]

I don’t speak Arabic. I speak English. In English *Moslem *is an appropriate variant on the word. It is appropriate, I’ve shown you this. I use it. In English we used to have other variants: Mussulman, Musselman, or Mussulmaun. These are no longer considered valid

This tiny argument of yours has happened a couple of times; I thus keep this resource handy; the word Moslem, as used *by *Moslems

moslem.org/

American Moslem Foundation
oz.net/~msarram/
A German site…
moslem.de/

Here’s another Moslem site using the term Moslem…
ranti.com/en/working_dress.html
This site gives advice on Moselm dress.

Another site talking about Moslem beliefs
experiencefestival.com/moslem_beliefs

Arabic News…
OIC exposes its actions to back Moslem minorities
arabicnews.com/ansub/Daily/Day/030408/2003040828.html

Yemen Times…
“On the occasion of the Holy Month of Ramadhan, aside from the worship rites and duties ascribed to the month for Moslems to engage in throughout the world, Ramadhan is also a month of reflection and meditation, in which Moslems should take a hard look at themselves.”
yementimes.com/article.shtml?i=883&p=opinion&a=1

MOM, WHAT IS A MOSLEM?
balcad.com/mom.shtml

utc.edu/Faculty/Bill-Wright/mossci2.htm
is a secular site using the term in praising Islam.

and as you’re into on-line encyclopeidas…
encyclopedia.com/html/X/X-M1oslem.asp
This encyclopedia site has lots of links to Moselm items, such as Moslem weddings.

tiscali.co.uk/reference/encyclopaedia/hutchinson/m0009781.html
This one says it’s just an alternative spelling

4panda.com/special/muslim/index.htm
This site gives Moslem tour packages (hate to sound incredulous, but they’d not be doing too much business if they were insulting their customers).

Both Moslem and Muslim are correct, but the second is now more common than the first. The term Mohammedan is considered offensive by many Muslims and is best avoided.
allwords.com/word-Moslem.html

I know and honestly thanks for taking the time and trouble to show it, it’s just like the different spellings of the prophet’s name, Mohammed and Muhammad, I personally prefer the one I consider most closest to the Arabic source.

Thanks man that is a good exercise…(on assumption that you are a male)

 

[AbeOman]

It’s not a matter of not believing in it. It’s a question of right believing. And, first, before I go any further, I’m giving you a lot of lee-way here because this thread is not an apology for Chrisitanity, but one for Islam - you’re doing what all other Moslems do - when we start to talk about the Koran, they stop the discussion, and turn it to other issues, such as in this case, alleged Christian violence.

This is one thing you have to explain to me, keep in mind my knowledge of Christians, Gospels and sects are good and I’ well acquainted with the bible, but you need to explain this in more details…“It’s not a matter of not believing in it. It’s a question of right believing…”?

But, 'cause you’re new here, I’m giving you the benefit of the doubt… that it’s an honest attempt of yours to understand the Christian position.

Honestly that was not my intention and thanks for giving me the benefit of the doubt, however, the voilance in the quran is there and it’s God discusses it in length in so many places but that does not mean God is telling Muslims of all times just go an kill other folks who are not Muslims or even other Muslims, lots of people are committing horrendous crimes in the name of God and we all know that they kill anyone and everyone not necessarily none Muslims alone. this is a forgone conclusion.

My argument was that one god say to the prophet do this equally God always said and don’t do this, well in terms of wars, voilance and similar matters.

You may agree or not but that is the case.

Here’s a start.

Some ‘examples’ given in the OT are simply accounts of what happened, not what is meant to happen. Lot sleeping with his daughters is an example of what did happen, not what is meant to happen.

As for the laws; the 10 Commandments were given at the time of the book of Exodus. The expanded version, such as in Leviticus, if it were meant for all time, would have been given to Adam.

Jesus gave us a fuller understanding of God’s will.

For example, in Leviticus, there’s a very limited idea on who we’re supposed to look after…
Leviticus. 19:18

" 'Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against one of your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD.

Love your ‘neighbour’. Jesus deals with this directly.

Matthew 5:43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,

Jesus is showing us that we’re not just meant to love our neighbour, but everyone… even those that attack us.

Even when he uses the term ‘neighbour’ he broadens it when asked a question

Luke 10:29

But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, “And who is my neighbour?”

He then gives the story of the Good Samaritan, knowing fully that those listening despised the Samaritans.

Again, you have not answer my question, do you believe OT or not and if not why not, you have explained at length what was and what is to be, and since Jesus says that he was not to change the old laws of Mosses bu to fulfill them…? where do you stand on that…?

I appreciate and know the biblical versus you have quoted but go back to my example in (John 8:58–59) clarified by (Exodus 3:14) ?

 

[Montalban]

Again, you have not answer my question, do you believe OT or not and if not why not, you have explained at length what was and what is to be, and since Jesus says that he was not to change the old laws of Mosses bu to fulfill them…? where do you stand on that…?

I appreciate and know the biblical versus you have quoted but go back to my example in (John 8:58–59) clarified by (Exodus 3:14) ?

I did answer you. I said we understand the OT in light of the NT.

So John wouldn’t be ‘clarified’ *by *Exodus. It would be the other way round, if at all.

The two verses show that God is God. You’re going for the classic Moslem argument, if God is God, in both NT and OT, how can we ignore the OT. Which is, as I’ve just said, something we don’t do.

I’m well ahead of you on this argument. The problem is you’re so set on a step-by-step approach you’ve not noticed what I’ve already dealt with.

I find it dishonest of you. I thought you were genuninely interested in the Bible. But you’re not. You’re following a well-worn Islamic approach. If you get me to admit one thing, you’ll come up with the next part of your argument. As noted, I’ve already nipped that in the bud - but you’re not prepared for that.

You can either address what I’ve said, or we can return to the subject of the thread, which is ISLAM, not Christianity!

 

[Montalban]

I know and honestly thanks for taking the time and trouble to show it, it’s just like the different spellings of the prophet’s name, Mohammed and Muhammad, I personally prefer the one I consider most closest to the Arabic source.

Well we don’t speak Arabic. If you want, then we can refer to Germany as Deutschland, because it’s closer to Germany in German, than the word Germany.

You see, we speak English. Not German. So English will depart from it too, in names of places, etc.

You’ll just have to get used to English conventions.