Clarification on Mormon Belief (part 2)

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spockrates

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OK, what gives? The discussion thread was just getting interesting, and had less than 500 posts, when the moderator closed it:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=396366&page=31

But other discussion thread remains open, even though it has nearly a thousand posts:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=372861&page=61

🤷

I suppose it’s a case of premature closeation!

😃

No biggie, I suppose we can continue where we left off, if anyone is interested. I was enjoying the thoughtful comments of both Catholics and Latter Day Saints, and surprised by the similarities in the methods both advise me to use to find the truth.

🙂
 
Marie:

Just in case you are interested in continuing the discussion, this was your last post:
Marie5890
Junior Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by catholic-rcia View Post
God made us with a brain. Jesus taught for three years, before their eyes were opened at His table in the breaking of the bread. This same table exist today for all souls.
You don’t get married, find the one true love in your life by placing your hand on anything and asking if this is the one. No, you spend precious time together building a relationship, falling in Love. This is how it works with Jesus.
You learn about Him, with an open heart you receive the very same revelations about Him as His first disciples did. The deposit of faith delivered once for all…nothing new needed, only Jesus and what He has done.
Wise insight, Catholic-rcia. Thanks for sharing.
 
RCIA, if you want to continue, this was your last post:
catholic-rcia
Regular Member

After reading a few more post here, I see that Spockrates is testing the spirits here.
I know a few people who have been told by the LDS here in Northern Utah to just put their hand on the Book of Mormon and ask if it is true. You have to be real careful in these things. As a Child I used to do this with a Weegi board and I received many warm feeling when asking it things like will my mother and father get back together and such. It’s not right to ask someone to simply have blind faith such as that. As a Matter of fact it reeks of sorcery, magic, superstition and testing the spirits in all the wrong ways. Its temptation is it not. To Temp…
Catechism
Superstition
2111 Superstition is the deviation of religious feeling and of the practices this feeling imposes. It can even affect the worship we offer the true God, e.g., when one attributes an importance in some way magical to certain practices otherwise lawful or necessary. To attribute the efficacy of prayers or of sacramental signs to their mere external performance, apart from the interior dispositions that they demand, is to fall into superstition.
God made us with a brain. Jesus taught for three years, before their eyes were opened at His table in the breaking of the bread. This same table exist today for all souls.
You don’t get married, find the one true love in your life by placing your hand on anything and asking if this is the one. No, you spend precious time together building a relationship, falling in Love. This is how it works with Jesus.
You learn about Him, with an open heart you receive the very same revelations about Him as His first disciples did. The deposit of faith delivered once for all…nothing new needed, only Jesus and what He has done.
When you say nothing new is needed, RCIA, do you mean no new Sacred Scriptures are needed? Or do you mean no new doctrines are needed?
 
Zerinus:

This was your last post, if you care to continue:
zerinus zerinus is offline
Regular Member

Quote:
Originally Posted by spockrates View Post
What I need is some measure of truth–like a ruler is a measure of the truth of length, or a multiplication table is the measure of the truth of a mathematical calculation. Don’t you think?
There is such a ruler. It is called the Bible! You seem to be reasonably acquainted with the Bible. That is the best ruler you can have. Read the Book of Mormon and compare it with the Bible. That is easy enough! But you can only make that comparison by actually reading the Book of Mormon, not just asking other people who have read it what they think!
Zerinus:

When measuring something–whether it be an engineer measuring the amount of stress a bridge can take, or a physician measuring the amount of medication to administer to a patient, or a diver measuring the amount of time he has left to spend deep beneath the sea before his air runs out–do you think it is important to use a reliable method to get the measurements correct?

🤷
 
Marie5890
Junior Member
Spockrates,
What is faith to you?
Do you believe God answers prayers?
Do you think God is obligated to answer your prayers in the way you insist? or demand? or require?
Do you believe in God?
Do you pray?
trust

yes

no

yes

yes

Marie, I’ve answered all of these questions, already. Perhaps you missed my replies to you and others?

🙂

If you want to think things through with me, I’d enjoy discussing what faith is. How would you define the virtue?
 
zerinus
Regular Member

Quote:
Originally Posted by spockrates View Post
Our Lord, then, sets Himself apart from false gods by saying He alone will predict the future. This is one reason I’m asking you to provide predictions of the future from the Book of Mormon, and am grateful to have them to consider.
Now, having answered your question first, will you answer mine? If the answer is that there are no extant MSS of the writings of the Nephite prophets, then will you care to further discuss prophecies of the Book of Mormon?
I did quote you prophecies from the Book of Mormon. There are still more if you wanted to look for them. Do you really want me to go and dig up all the prophecies in the Book of Mormon, and quote them here on CAF? If you are genuinely interested in that aspect of the Book of Mormon, the easiest solution is to read the book and find that out for yourself. Don’t you think?
Zerinus:

Same question applies, if you want to answer it:

When measuring something–whether it be an engineer measuring the amount of stress a bridge can take, or a physician measuring the amount of medication to administer to a patient, or a diver measuring the amount of time he has left to spend deep beneath the sea before his air runs out–do you think it is important to use a reliable method to get the measurements correct?

🤷
 
zerinus
Regular Member

Quote:
Originally Posted by spockrates View Post
I’m trying my best to submit myself to God the best way I know how. At this point in my life that means seeking truth in the pages of the Bible–either by trying to understand what is unclear to me in its pages, or by trying to obey what is clear to me in its pages. One clear command that I’m trying to follow now is this:
Code:
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
Code:
(1 John 4:1)
I have no problem with that. It is a pity that Paul didn’t tell you how to “try the spirits”! So I am curious in finding out how you intend to carry out that test.
Quote:
And I’m not saying that Joseph Smith, or the LDS Church is a false prophet. I’m just obeying God by testing whether he or it is. I’m doing the same with the Catholic Church–I’m not claiming their Church or their Pope is a false prophet. I’m just obeying God by testing whether it or he is.
I am all for it. But the question still remains: how do you intend to carry out that test?
I’ve answered these questions of yours in previous posts, but I gather my answers lacked clarity. Please let me try again.

:o

My reasoning goes like this: I start by praying and asking God how I can know that the Bible or the Book of Mormon is divine, rather than human, in origin (i.e., I ask how do I know it’s source is Him and not merely human).

The answer I’ve received, is that God predicts the future (for only He knows the future with absolute certainty):

17And the LORD said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken.

18I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

19And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

20But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.

21And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?

22When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

(Deuteronomy 18:17-22)

"I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them."

(Isaiah 42:8-9)

So I pray and ask for evidence of predictions of the future in the Bible, and God has shown me many. There are predictions about Christ, predictions about the Jewish nation, and predictions about nearly every ancient city within a thousand miles of Jerusalem. Where the predictions have already come true, they can be confirmed as sound evidence of God’s involvement, for they are not vague, but they are instead specific and verifiable.

Now, this test proves to me that God is the author (so to speak) of the Sacred Scriptures you and I call the Bible. My thought is that I can apply the same test to the Book of Mormon that was so effective in testing the Bible.

Now this test only helps to show me that the Bible is trustworthy, where its meaning is clear. Where it is unclear (such as in the ambiguous passages I mentioned in Matthew 16 and 26) I need a different method to discern (or measure) its truth.

Do you think the predictions of the future test is flawed in some way? If so, please explain.

🙂
 
Thanks Spockrates, I must have missed when you did answer them before. 🙂 Sometimes more posts go up than I am aware of in a thread when I have been away.

I see more clearly with your post that you use the ability to predict the future as a ruler of determining truth and authority. That seems to me to be sticking God in a box, but if that is what works for you then hey, have a party. 😃

Im going to bow out of this conversation since I think its come to an impasse in many ways for you and I. What you need and what you require in your journey I cant aide any more than I already have.

Mormonism is my past. Not my present and certainly not my future.

And since that is the main theme of this thread “Clarification of Mormon Belief” I will let those who are present day, respectable and knowledge representatives of that faith help you clarify their beliefs.

I left long ago. 🙂 Have no desire to look back. Been there done that. 🙂
 
Thanks Spockrates, I must have missed when you did answer them before. 🙂 Sometimes more posts go up than I am aware of in a thread when I have been away.

I see more clearly with your post that you use the ability to predict the future as a ruler of determining truth and authority. That seems to me to be sticking God in a box, but if that is what works for you then hey, have a party. 😃

Im going to bow out of this conversation since I think its come to an impasse in many ways for you and I. What you need and what you require in your journey I cant aide any more than I already have.

Mormonism is my past. Not my present and certainly not my future.

And since that is the main theme of this thread “Clarification of Mormon Belief” I will let those who are present day, respectable and knowledge representatives of that faith help you clarify their beliefs.

I left long ago. 🙂 Have no desire to look back. Been there done that. 🙂
Thank you, Marie for all of your help! May God richly bless you!

🙂
 
OK, what gives? The discussion thread was just getting interesting, and had less than 500 posts, when the moderator closed it:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=396366&page=31

But other discussion thread remains open, even though it has nearly a thousand posts:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=372861&page=61

🤷

I suppose it’s a case of premature closeation!

😃

No biggie, I suppose we can continue where we left off, if anyone is interested. I was enjoying the thoughtful comments of both Catholics and Latter Day Saints, and surprised by the similarities in the methods both advise me to use to find the truth.

🙂
You should bear in mind that this is a Catholic site, and it is not a suitable place for delving too deeply into another religious faith. If you seriously want to look into Mormonism, with the possible intention of joining it someday if you decided it is what you want, then a Mormon site would be a more suitable place to post your questions. You might like to try Mormon Apologetics & Discussion Board (MADB) to see if that suits you better. There are a few Catholic posters there too, who can always give you an alternative opinion from the LDS posters.
 
You should bear in mind that this is a Catholic site, and it is not a suitable place for delving too deeply into another religious faith. If you seriously want to look into Mormonism, with the possible intention of joining it someday if you decided it is what you want, then a Mormon site would be a more suitable place to post your questions. You might like to try Mormon Apologetics & Discussion Board (MADB) to see if that suits you better. There are a few Catholic posters there too, who can always give you an alternative opinion from the LDS posters.
Thanks for the link! Will you be there? Should I tell 'em Zerinus sent me?

🙂
 
Thanks for the link! Will you be there?
I do post there occasionally, when I find an interesting thread going, but I tend to post here more often.
Should I tell 'em Zerinus sent me?
LOL! 🙂 You are welcome to do that if you want; but most of them will probably not know who zerinus is, because people there change a lot, and I don’t post there often enough to recognizable by most of them.
 
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