Clarification on the SIN of Masturbation

[on_the_hill]

I don’t disagree. My point is exactly that there are often gray areas of culpability that blur the bright lines.

Are all sins intrinsically evil?

 

[Thorolfr]

I said murder. Murder is the unjustified killing of another person.

But who decides whether a killing is justified? If someone on death row is executed, some people might not consider that to be a justified killing. If someone is defending his homeland and kills someone he considers to be an invader, he might consider that to be a justified killing. But perhaps the person killed also claims the land and doesn’t consider himself to be an invader and other people like him might consider the person who is defending his homeland to be nothing but a terrorist.

 

[BoomBoomMancini]

But who decides whether a killing is justified?

Well, if we’re talking about sin, God, I suppose.

 

[RealisticCatholic]

It is definitely a sin. A mortal one at that.

Incorrect. Mortal sin is defined when two other conditions, besides grave matter, are met.

So it’s better to say it is a “grave sin.” Only if the person freely does it, with no compulsion, and knows it is wrong can it potentially be said to be a “mortal sin.”

 

[Thorolfr]

Thorolfr:

But who decides whether a killing is justified?

Well, if we’re talking about sin, God, I suppose.

That doesn’t help someone who is trying to decide whether he is about to commit a justified killing or is about to commit murder.

 

[OrbisNonSufficit]

I think it has to do with natural means of things. Sexual organs are to be naturally used to please others, not ourselves. Massaging or scratching yourself isn’t limited in such way. It is very interesting question, actually!

 

[OrbisNonSufficit]

Justified killing would be in order to protect someone, as a last resort to do greater good than killing someone would. It is extremely hard to judge this. St. Augustine wrote about Just War which is similar subject. It’s on wikipedia.

 

[Thorolfr]

Sexual organs are to be naturally used to please others, not ourselves.

So, is it bad for someone to experience pleasure when they have sex?

 

[OrbisNonSufficit]

No, if they do it while pleasing someone else. True sex should be about pleasing someone else and accepting the pleasure they give you- not to strive for your own pleasure. We, humans, are not perfect. It is desirable we give pleasure or receive pleasure from spouse at the very least. After all, as we give something to be received, we should learn to receive what we are given and appreciate it.

However, I just remember a post from deacon/priest (don’t remember) who said that masturbation in marriage is not evil if serious reason occurs (one side fasting from sex, does not have to impact other side) and it is only for time. As long as lust does not come (so for example you only think of your own spouse, on whose body you have rights thanks to marriage) it is not considered necessarily evil. I am actually conflicted as to what to think now.

EDIT: above thing about post probably not true

 

[GospelOfMatthew]

Masturbation may not always be a mortal sin but it is always a grave sin. There is no debating this.

 

[GospelOfMatthew]

who said that masturbation in marriage is not evil if serious reason occurs (one side fasting from sex, does not have to impact other side) and it is only for time. As long as lust does not come (so for example you only think of your own spouse, on whose body you have rights thanks to marriage) it is not considered necessarily evil

No, this is wrong. Masturbation is never okay.

Our sexual organs are for pleasure and reproduction. Contraception, homosexual acts, and masturbation violate the intrinsic value of reproduction. Rape and incest violate the intrinsic value of pleasure.

Masturbation is always wrong whether in marriage or not, there are no justifications for it. Our sexuality is a reflection of our faith. Masturbation is fundamentally disordered and a disordered act can never be good for any reason at any time

 

[GospelOfMatthew]

I just remember a post from deacon/priest (don’t remember) who said that masturbation in marriage is not evil

Also as a word of advice, I would be very careful saying that you “remember” a post from a clergy member saying something contrary to the faith. Unless you have a specific piece of evidence, you are slandering and potentially spreading scandal.

Be very careful, this is a windy and dark road you are going down

 

[OrbisNonSufficit]

My apologies. I did want to include tone of not being sure (so nobody would use this as excuse nor justification), but also wanted to get genuine response to whether that is true or not. Is intention not the root of everything however? I understand if there is never good intention to masturbation, but wouldn’t it be inherently evil because of lack of good intention, more than because it is inherently evil in itself? In the end I guess that does not matter as result is the same.

As vaguely as I remember, it was about a pair where one person was fasting from sexual intercourse while the other one wasn’t- and as we can’t force fasts on others, this was what was suggested. Would this still be inherently evil? In the end that would also justify masturbation for those whose spouse died. I guess I either remember that wrong, misunderstood it or there was a mistake in that post/article.

 

[GospelOfMatthew]

When something is disordered that means it can never under any circumstance be considered a good thing. Masturbation and homosexual acts are two such examples of disordered acts.

It doesn’t matter if there is some fast or illness or anything. Two married people promise to be faithful in good times and in bad. There has never been and will never be a valid justification for masturbation.

Masturbation is an outright mockery of our faith

 

[commenter]

Masturbation may not always be a mortal sin but it is always a grave sin. There is no debating this.

I agree, but I would word it differently. If you say it is a grave sin people automatically think mortal sin. Better to say the act itself is objectively wrong (for anyone, anytime). We can judge that.
Of course we can’t judge if it’s a mortal sin, for a particular person, on this particular instance.

 

[goout]

OrbisNonSufficit:

Sexual organs are to be naturally used to please others, not ourselves.

So, is it bad for someone to experience pleasure when they have sex?

Is it bad…?
You are asking for a moral evaluation. What is the good your moral evaluation points to?
Is pleasure the end? Because that’s what your question seems to imply. Pleasure is a rather inferior end when compared with higher goods.

I like a good beer buzz, and that’s a good thing when the lawn is mowed and I’m on the porch swing thirsty and ready for a nap.
When my wife has a broken ankle and the laundry needs done, beer buzz is a way inferior good. The pleasure of a beer buzz is also inferior to the good of a well disciplined life that is responsible. I hope you get the drift.

You are going to say that pleasure serves the unification of the spouses, and that is also true. But pleasure can’t serve the unification of spouses if not properly ordered. It becomes a dead and sterile end.

Pleasure points toward conjugal love, which is a complete self gift encompassing the whole human person.
Me getting off for pleasure’s sake is not a complete self gift, it’s just getting off for my sake.