Clarification on this quote please

[Credo_in_Deum]

"When the Council Fathers replaced the word “is” with the word subsistit, they did so for a very precise reason. The concept expressed by “is” [to be] is far broader than that expressed by “to subsist.” ‘To subsist’ is a very precise way of being, that is, to be as a subject, which exists in itself. Thus the Council Fathers meant to say that the being of the Church as such is a broader entity than the Roman Catholic Church, but within the latter it acquires, in an incomparable way, the character of a true and proper subject.", Interview in the German newspaper Frankfurter AIIgemeine with Cardinal Ratzinger, Sept. 22, 2000.

I don’t know if this has been discussed already and I apologize if I’m beating a dead horse, but doesn’t this quote give the impression that the Roman Catholic Church is not the Body of Christ but rather part of the body that makes up the Body of Christ? Is this contrary to what other Saints and Popes have stated or am I missing something? Looking for clarification please.

God Bless

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

I don’t know if this has been discussed already and I apologize if I’m beating a dead horse, but doesn’t this quote give the impression that the Roman Catholic Church is not the Body of Christ but rather part of the body that makes up the Body of Christ? Is this contrary to what other Saints and Popes have stated or am I missing something? Looking for clarification please.

God Bless

Yes and No. Remeber that the Roman (or Latin) Church is not the whole of the Church the whole of the Church is the Catholic Church. The Western, Roman, Latin. is but a part of the entire Church. It just happens to be the largest part and the part which the Pope presides. But a Pope could just as easily come from one of the Eastern rites as well.

 

[laszlo]

The ways of being (Ontology 101):

• is (even a fictional entity ‘is’)
• exist (which have effect on others by itself)
• subsist (the way as a person ‘is’, somewhat involving the eternity)
• esse in se subsistent (what is God’s existence) .

The person also exists and is, but his being is much more. So is Christ’s presence in the Church.

 

[Credo_in_Deum]

Yes and No. Remeber that the Roman (or Latin) Church is not the whole of the Church the whole of the Church is the Catholic Church. The Western, Roman, Latin. is but a part of the entire Church. It just happens to be the largest part and the part which the Pope presides. But a Pope could just as easily come from one of the Eastern rites as well.

Thank you for the reply. I guess I always looked at the Roman Catholic Church as being the whole Church since communion with it is indispensible in order to be part of The Catholic Church and since the Roman Catholic Church doesn’t really need to be in communion with anyone in order to be The Catholic Church. Does that make sense?

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

Thank you for the reply. I guess I always looked at the Roman Catholic Church as being the whole Church since communion with it is indispensible in order to be part of The Catholic Church and since the Roman Catholic Church doesn’t really need to be in communion with anyone in order to be The Catholic Church. Does that make sense?

Yes. but it is not the Roman Rite that one must be in communion with, But with the See of Peter.

 

[PJM]

=Credo in Deum;7869273]I don’t know if this has been discussed already and I apologize if I’m beating a dead horse, but doesn’t this quote give the impression that the Roman Catholic Church is not the Body of Christ but rather part of the body that makes up the Body of Christ? Is this contrary to what other Saints and Popes have stated or am I missing something? Looking for clarification please.

God Bless

YES BUT

point 1. we are “just” a part of he “Body of Christ” God CREATED everyone for the possibility of salvation and Christ redemptive act on the cross was “For All.”

WHY? Because “redemption” and salvation have differing meanings. Redemption [PAST TENSE] is NOW a done deal.

Salvation on the other hand is an on-going PROCESS that requires in an absolute sense humanities cooperation with Gpd’s Plan for our persoanl salvation. The Idea that God’s all the work and we get a free ticket to heaven is frankly; SILLY! The Bible declairs no such thing.

Matt.22: 14 “For many are called, but few are chosen.”

Matt.26: 28 “for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins”

Mark.10: 45 “For the Son of man also came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”

Luke.13: 24 “Strive to enter by the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able”

John.1: 7 “He came for testimony, to bear witness to the light, **that all might **believe through him.”

2Cor.5: 14-15 “For the love of Christ controls us, because we are convinced that one has died for all; therefore all have died. And he died for all, that those **who live might live no **longer for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised.”

1 Tim.2: 6 “who gave himself as a ransom for all, the testimony to which was borne at the proper time.”

Heb.9: 12 he entered once for all into the Holy Place, taking not the blood of goats and calves but his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption. [26] for then he would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But as it is, he has appeared once for all at the end of the age to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself

Heb.9: 12] "he entered once for all into the Holy Place, taking not the blood of goats and calves but his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption. 26 "for then he would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But as it is, he has appeared once for all at the end of the age to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself" [FINAL JUDGMENT

1Pet.3: 18 “For Christ also died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, **that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit”

Eph.1: 7 “In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace” MEANS ONLY THAT SINS ARE FORGIVEN BY GOD ALONE;NOT THAT THEY HAVE BEEN!

Priest in God 's name REMIT our sins as commanded by God in John 20:23. The Forgiveness is from God; the priest role is to commend to God wether or not the person is TRULY repentant…

POINT 2. Read carefully the statement still includes the teaching that all salvation flows through the CC; and that the Catholic Church ALONE is the home of the FULLNESS OF TRUTH on Fsaith beliefs and Morals.

God Bless,
Pat

 

[Credo_in_Deum]

Yes. but it is not the Roman Rite that one must be in communion with, But with the See of Peter.

Yes sorry that’s what I mean to express by using the title Roman Catholic Church. Where the See of Peter is there is the whole Church correct? The quote I feel is misleading because the now Holy Father didn’t say the Church of Christ is broader than the Roman Rite but that the Church of Christ is broader than the Roman Catholic Church aka the See of Peter.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Yes sorry thats what I mean to express by using the title Roman Catholic Church. Where the See of Peter is there is the whole Church correct?

The whole Church can be said to exist within any diocese.

The whole of the Catholic Church is in communion with the Holy Father in his role as supreme pontiff. The Pope has three “jobs”, supreme pontiff of the Catholic Church, Patriarch of the West which denotes being head of the Latin Catholic Church (a title Pope Benedict has chosen to drop), and Bishop of Rome.

 

[Credo_in_Deum]

The whole Church can be said to exist within any diocese.

Correct but only if that diocese is in communion with the Pope.

The whole of the Catholic Church is in communion with the Holy Father in his role as supreme pontiff. The Pope has three “jobs”, supreme pontiff of the Catholic Church, Patriarch of the West which denotes being head of the Latin Catholic Church (a title Pope Benedict has chosen to drop), and Bishop of Rome.

Yes so where the Pope is the whole Church is present. Since the See of Peter is in Rome then the whole of Christ’s Church is present in the Roman Catholic Church. This has nothing do with Rites that exist inside the Body but rather the understanding that the whole Church is where the Head is (the See of Peter). If anyone wants to be a part of this whole Church regardless of Rite they then have to be connected to the Head (the See of Peter, The Pope) in order to be considered part of The Whole Catholic Church.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Correct but only if that diocese is in communion with the Pope.

Yes so where the Pope is the whole Church is present. Since the See of Peter is in Rome then the whole of Christ’s Church is present in the Roman Catholic Church. This has nothing do with Rites that exist inside the Body but rather the understanding that the whole Church is where the Head is (the See of Peter). If anyone wants to be a part of this whole Church regardless of Rite they then have to be connected to the Head (the See of Peter, The Pope) in order to be considered part of The Whole Catholic Church.

Right, they are connected with the Pope, not the Latin Church.

 

[Credo_in_Deum]

Right, they are connected with the Pope, not the Latin Church.

Exactly but the Church in Rome is called the Roman Catholic Church partly because that’s where Peters See is not just because that’s where the Latin Rite is. If the Pope can be from the Eastern Church wouldn’t his Papal Chair still be in the Roman Catholic Church even thou he is from the Eastern Church and Rite?

You see the title Roman Catholic Church has less to do with Rite and more to do with where Peters See is located (because wherever Peters See is located there is the Whole Catholic Church), so when our now Holy Father says that the Church of Christ is bigger than the Roman Catholic Church (aka the See of Peter) then isn’t he saying that this See is not the whole Church but just part of it compared to the other Christian Churches that exist? Would this be like saying the body of Christ which is the Church is more than just the Whole Catholic Church?

If this was not what the Holy Father was implying then why didn’t he just say the Rite instead of Church especially when he knows the Roman Church is titled thus for two distinct reasons 1. That’s where Peters Chair/See is, and 2. That’s where the Roman Rite is.