Classical philosophy, Catholic theology, and Ancient Egypt

[Caesar]

Catholic theology has long been influenced by the classical philosophers of ancient Greece. We can see this in the works of St. Thomas Aquinas, St. Augustine and others, who have drawn from the minds of the pre-Christian Greeks (notably Aristotle and his mentor Plato) philosophical ideas to incorporate into Christian theology, to give us a greater understanding of the universe, of God and ourselves. It has been part of our philosophical and theological tradition to look to the great thinkers of ancient Greece, pagans though they were, for explanations for today.

Now, it has been suggested that the philosophies perfected in Greece had roots in older traditions from the East. The ancient Greeks themselves attributed many ideas to the Egyptians, whose advanced society would have allowed for the proper circumstances that provoke and nurture philosophical thought. Ancient Egypt possessed a highly advanced civilization, thousands of years before the height of the Roman Empire, with a complex system of religious beliefs- which for a short period was monotheistic. This leads to the possibility that Egypt had a flourishing philosophical culture, from which the Greeks would later draw for their own traditions.

In the search for philosophical ideas and advancement in our Catholic theology, would it be wrong to explore further the thoughts of the ancient Egyptians?

 

[havemercy]

Is it wrong to further explore the thoughts of anyone, ever? Uh. No.

 

[Truthstalker]

I think you would err greatly in doing so. Clement of Alexandria argued that the Greeks took their philosophy from the Hebrews (he argues this at length) and as you know the ancient Egyptian theology was downright pagan, something God judged, and I am not sure it is not occult as well. On the other hand, there are plenty of ECF who discuss the situation and the downfall of paganism, such as Athenagoras and others who refuted paganism in the early days of the church. Their take on the origins of Christian philosophy is something I only looked at superficially, but it might be of interest to you.

 

[Lion_of_Narnia]

Some of the Greeks attributed the roots of their philosophy to Egypt—and they were wrong

The Hellenes saw that Egyptian civilation was older–and there was some borrowing of art, architecture, and some technology. However, there was no ancient borrowing of religious or philosphical thought to any significant extent–the Greek religious mythos was another varient of Indo-European, the Egyptian a Hamitic (North african) origin. Hellene philosphical traditions arise from a post Dorian invasion culture (after 900 BC) and was indigeneous to the Greeks–it stands in stark contrast to surronding ancient cultures Some Greeks made the unwarrented assumption that because art & architecture was undeniably borrowed that they must have gotten their philosphy from Egypt as well–they made that assumption because:

1: Egyptian culture tended to be very ethnocentric and pronouced itself the font of all wisdom–and some Greeks living in Egypt bought the claim

2: Some Greeks believed in diffusion of culture over claims of independent–and they didn’t really know Egptian culture well enough to spot the differences

See Mary Leibowitz’s Not Out of Africa–with is an excellent refutation of Afro-Centric claims of influnce on Greek philosphy

 

[Greg27]

Greeks no doubt borrowed some of their Philosophy and Religion from Egypt, particularly the so called ‘mystery religions’ such as the Cult of Isis, and the various Gnostic and heterodox Jewish sects may also have Egyptian elements in their religion. Plato may have been influenced by Pythagoran religion, which in turn might have borrowed many ideas from Egypt (Pythagoras is said to have converted to many Egyptian and Near-Eastern religions in order to find what the common denominator was, though so much of his life is embellished legend it is hard to know the truth). However by and large the Greek achievement was also unique, and while Egyptian religious ideas might be interesting, I doubt they can do more than shed light on the history of Christian philosophy and theology.

 

[Contarini]

I think you would err greatly in doing so. Clement of Alexandria argued that the Greeks took their philosophy from the Hebrews (he argues this at length) and as you know the ancient Egyptian theology was downright pagan, something God judged, and I am not sure it is not occult as well.

Define “occult.” I think that there are clearly some Egyptian roots to both Greek and Hebrew thought, and this is worth exploring. However, the contrasts should also be noted. Someone I’ve read–either C. S. Lewis or then-Cardinal Ratzinger, I think, but I may just think this because they are two of my favorite Christian writers–pointed out that Egyptian society was focused on the afterlife in an unhealthy way (essentially glorifying death–at least by the time of the Exodus; this was arguably not true of the earlier phases), and this may have been one reason why God did not reveal much about the afterlife to the Hebrews until centuries later. They needed to have the Egyptian notions cleaned out of their system first, so to speak. (I think both Lewis and Ratzinger may have said this in different ways, but I could be wrong.)

Edwin

 

[rr1213]

In the search for philosophical ideas and advancement in our Catholic theology, would it be wrong to explore further the thoughts of the ancient Egyptians?

Since the Catholic Church has epitomized the fullness of the faith since its founding by Jesus Christ, why thousands of years later would you want to look to ancient Egypt as a means for the “advancement” of Catholic theology?

 

[Carlus_Magnus]

I believe so, because the Egyptians’ paganism only contributed to the loss of their souls. I believe it would be placing yourself in unnecesary danger, many have lost the faith through studying false religions and not having the necesary devotion to repel temptation to lose one or more articles of the faith, the Fathers did this, but they were Bishops, and were very devout, were confessors and men of faith.

 

[Mirdath]

Since the Catholic Church has epitomized the fullness of the faith since its founding by Jesus Christ, why thousands of years later would you want to look to ancient Egypt as a means for the “advancement” of Catholic theology?

It’s a matter of heritage, ‘roots’ if you will, and of better understanding. For instance, Catholicism has always been pretty big on Aristotle (and in general quite properly so!). Aristotle himself was not an isolated property; he was part of a society, a person, a student and a teacher. So to understand where a lot of Catholic thinking came from and why it is how it is, one must needs understand Aristotle; to understand Aristotle, understand Plato and Socrates; to understand them, know Athenian society and history. The line does indeed trace back through ancient Egypt.
Carlus Magnus:

I believe so, because the Egyptians’ paganism only contributed to the loss of their souls. I believe it would be placing yourself in unnecesary danger, many have lost the faith through studying false religions and not having the necesary devotion to repel temptation to lose one or more articles of the faith, the Fathers did this, but they were Bishops, and were very devout, were confessors and men of faith.

Christians are instructed to be in this world, simply not of it. That does not mean ‘live in a bubble’.

 

[Carlus_Magnus]

It’s a matter of heritage, ‘roots’ if you will, and of better understanding. For instance, Catholicism has always been pretty big on Aristotle (and in general quite properly so!). Aristotle himself was not an isolated property; he was part of a society, a person, a student and a teacher. So to understand where a lot of Catholic thinking came from and why it is how it is, one must needs understand Aristotle; to understand Aristotle, understand Plato and Socrates; to understand them, know Athenian society and history. The line does indeed trace back through ancient Egypt.

Christians are instructed to be in this world, simply not of it. That does not mean ‘live in a bubble’.

But it also does not mean go and mingle with it.

 

[Mirdath]

But it also does not mean go and mingle with it.

Actually, it kind of does, doesn’t it? The disciples were sent not to preach from the outskirts of towns but into peoples’ homes. Not being of the world has nothing to do with education, company, or any of that – it’s a warning against actually joining the rat race, putting yourself ahead of God and his work.