Clergy Master's of Divinity questions

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Can interested laity, monks not called to being a priest, or nuns receive the very same degree that the clergy are required earn just prior to ordination?

Also can a man not sponsored by a church, but feels the calling to the priesthood, get his degree at a seminary and then sort of shoehorn his way into ordination?
 
Actually, many people who will never be ordained have MA in Theology. I am one of them…

You will not be able to “shoehorn” your way to ordination; seminary is not just about getting a degree, it’s about formation
 
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Angel_Bradford said:
Actually, many people who will never be ordained have MA in Theology. I am one of them…
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At least at my seminary, Master of Theology and Master of Divinity are two separate degree programs.
Episcopalian said:
Also can a man not sponsored by a church, but feels the calling to the priesthood, get his degree at a seminary and then sort of shoehorn his way into ordination?
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Definitely not.
 
During the rite of ordination, a priest (or deacon) promises obedience to his bishop (or religious superior). The first act of obedience, though, is to listen to what the bishop (or his representative) says regarding acceptance into candidacy for ordination. That is one reason, though not the only one, that individuals are sponsored in seminary if they are seeking to be ordained. One can’t go that way on their own. And “shoehorn” is a particularly unfortunate choice of words in terms of acceptance into a diocese.

Meanwhile, lay people can earn both an MDiv and an MA (and/or PhD) in theology. But as has been said, simply earning an MDiv is only part of what is required for ordination.
 
Episcopalian said:
Also can a man not sponsored by a church, but feels the calling to the priesthood, get his degree at a seminary and then sort of shoehorn his way into ordination?
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There are basically two kinds of Catholic seminary, diocesan seminaries and those belonging to the orders such as the Dominicans, Franciscans, Jesuits, Claretians, Carmelites, and many others. As far as I’m aware, both kinds accept only those applicants who clearly intend to seek ordination, though naturally the different orders all have their own rules. I don’t see how “shoehorning” would work.
 
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Judging by your account name (“Episcopalian”) I presume you’re not Catholic. No worries if that’s the case.

To the first part of your question: generally, yes, some Catholic universities & seminaries admit laity to their M.Div programs, but many don’t. The seminary I attended admits only men preparing for priesthood. These are usually seminaries attached to dioceses.

To the second part of your question: unlike most Protestant seminaries, sponsorship from a bishop or religious order is usually a prerequisite to enter an M.Div program.
 
Episcopalian said:
Can interested laity, monks not called to being a priest, or nuns receive the very same degree that the clergy are required earn just prior to ordination?

Also can a man not sponsored by a church, but feels the calling to the priesthood, get his degree at a seminary and then sort of shoehorn his way into ordination?
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At some Seminaries/Catholic universities, yes. At most Seminaries/Catholic universities, no.

(these answers are for the USA only)

Most Catholic colleges & seminaries limit the Master of Divinity to ONLY Seminaries in formation for the priesthood. This is mainly due to logistical reasons.

However, some Catholic colleges do offer a Master of Divinity that lay people may earn, but most Catholic Colleges do not offer this.

Deacons & laity typically earn a Master of Arts in Theology, not a Master of Divinity.

I know of one Seminary where seminaniarins are allowed to start their seminary studies without a Diocese or Religious Order sponsoring them. They start their formation and some dioceses that need priests visit that seminary and interview the “orphan seminarians.” If there is a match, those seminarians are they “adopted” by the visiting diocese. However, the seminarian ultimately cannot finish the program and cannot be ordained without a Diocese or Religious Order sponsoring them.

Finally, the priesthood is FAR more than just an academic degree. It’s personal and spiritual formation too, plus ultimately a sacrament received from the bishop.
 
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If I had such a degree, I’d finally win the respect of CAF, and my posts would be revered and go unchallenged. A man can dream.
 
christofirst said:
If I had such a degree, I’d finally win the respect of CAF, and my posts would be revered and go unchallenged. A man can dream.
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Considering multiple priests have been run off this site and had lay people try to insist to them that they know better, no.
 
That’s true. My previous pastor had a M.TH; my currant pastor has an MA.Div.

The M.Div is a professional degree which is usually a prerequisite for ordination or licensing for ministry.

The M.TH is an academic degree that be a stand-alone degree or continue to a PhD.
 
phil19034 said:
Deacons & laity typically earn a Master of Arts in Theology, not a Master of Divinity.
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Do you know the main differences between a Masters of Arts in Theology and Master of Divinity in terms of coursework? Just curious…
 
I wonder how the formation of a Seminarian who already had studied Theology would be 🤔 Would he only do the pastoral “practices”? Would he have theoretical lectures?
 
jack63 said:
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phil19034:
Deacons & laity typically earn a Master of Arts in Theology, not a Master of Divinity.
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Do you know the main differences between a Masters of Arts in Theology and Master of Divinity in terms of coursework? Just curious…
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Master of Divinity usually takes at least 4 years (often 70+ credits) while the Master of Arts in Theology, Master of Theology / Master of Theological Studies are usually 30+ credits.
  • The Master of Divinity (M.Div.) is a “professional degree”
  • The Master of Theology (M.Th.) is an “academic degree” usually meant for someone who already has a M.Div. or a terminal Master’s degree in Theology & who now wants to raise their credentials to in order to earn a Ph.D. (in other words, it’s often - but not always - a 2nd Master’s degree in theology)
  • *****Master of Theological Studies (M.T.S) is typically an “academic degrees” for someone with ambitions towards a Ph.D.
  • *****The Master of Arts in Theology (M.A. / M.A. in Th. / M.A.T.S.) is usually a terminal “academic degree” (for someone not moving seeking a Ph.D.)
***** At some universities, this is reversed, where the M.A. is more advanced than the M.T.S. The truth is, you have to pay close attention.*****

This is why it’s very common for many Lay People with a Master’s degree in theology to know more scripture & academic theology than the priests who only have a Master of Divinity.

While the Master of Divinity, does cover some theology, it’s more focused on job training than on academic theology. For example: a Master of Divinity program has a few courses on how to write a homily and how to preach. A Master’s in theology (M.A., M.Th., or M.T.S) is not going to spend time on writing and preaching.

This is also why many priests who want to move onto a Ph.D. or want to engage in apologetics also earn a Master’s in theology (M.A., M.Th., or M.T.S) in addition to the Master of Divinity degree.

Here is a protestant description between M.A., M.Th. and M.Div., but’s pretty accurate for Catholics too.

 
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It is up to the bishop/diocese/religious order to decide what the seminarian needs.

Former protestant pastors/priests becoming Catholic deacons/priests are in a similar situation where they are asked to complement their Philosophy and Theology studies as well as typical Catholic courses needed for ordination. Practical pastoral work in a parish before ordination is required and many dioceses send their seminarians to Rome for a year of study.
 
Christofirst: If I had such a degree, I’d finally win the respect of CAF,
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And even if that were true, 'twould still be a fantastic waste of time.
 
phil19034: you have to pay close attention
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To make matters worse, one must throw the STB into the midst which, as a “French bachelor’s” is the equivalent of M.Div or M.A., despite having two degrees above it.
 
HeDa said:
Former protestant pastors/priests becoming Catholic deacons/priests are in a similar situation where they are asked to complement their Philosophy and Theology studies as well as typical Catholic courses needed for ordination.
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Yes. Even without considering ordination, Protestant theology students wanting to register for a PhD in a Catholic faculty here are asked to complement at least their dogmatics and canon law.
 
phil19034 said:
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jack63:
Do you know the main differences between a Masters of Arts in Theology and Master of Divinity in terms of coursework? Just curious…
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Master of Divinity usually takes at least 4 years
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A basic, raw MDiv is generally a 3-year degree. But candidates for ordination to the priesthood in the Catholic Church require that 4th year. Some seminaries will give a second degree like a ThM for that 4th year…or add a little more for an STL if there’s a pontifical/ecclesiastical faculty. Priesthood candidates also require a significant number of philosophy credits BEFORE beginning the MDiv, thus diocesan priesthood formation usually lasts about 6 years. Formation for Religious priesthood candidates is usually longer.
 
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