Collective or Corporate Salvation

[Nix89]

Maybe this is more of an Ask An Apologist question but I’d like some general thoughts on this. On a recent Glenn Beck program he was all bent out of shape over the concept of Collective Salvation - that it’s not a Christian concept but Socialism - and that the only thing that really matters is one’s personal acceptance of Jesus as Saviour. Well, okay, I can go just so far with that. Doesn’t the Church also insist that as the Mystical Body of Christ we are saved Corporately? That in a way our salvation does depend on that of other believers? We need each other to get to heaven too, as I understand it. Any thoughts out there on this?

 

[MarkThompson]

Maybe this is more of an Ask An Apologist question but I’d like some general thoughts on this. On a recent Glenn Beck program he was all bent out of shape over the concept of Collective Salvation - that it’s not a Christian concept but Socialism - and that the only thing that really matters is one’s personal acceptance of Jesus as Saviour. Well, okay, I can go just so far with that. Doesn’t the Church also insist that as the Mystical Body of Christ we are saved Corporately? That in a way our salvation does depend on that of other believers? We need each other to get to heaven too, as I understand it. Any thoughts out there on this?

Well, Glenn Beck is a convert from Catholicism to Mormonism. That’s roughly the equivalent of converting from being a Baptist to being a Scientologist. I wouldn’t give his religious opinions one moment’s thought.

 

[RosaryCrusader]

We’re not saved collectively. Just because one is Catholic does not mean one will be saved. I think the Communion of Saints and salvation is being completely distorted and misunderstood here.

If you accept Christ then you accept all he revealed. If you don’t accept all that He has revealed then you do not accept Christ but rather your own imaginings of Him - and that “faith” will not save you.

 

[bnbkaine]

Yeah, that whole story about how the Good Shepherd will go out in search of the one lost lamb is pretty indicative of the individualness of salvation. It is not as if the Shepherd looks at the ninety nine and thinks that it is good enough and the lost one will find its way back home on its own. Nor are those lambs somehow pointing the way to the lost lamb. Our salvation is personal; our perfected salvation helps others. But again, that is the personal choice to be like Christ.

 

[WetCatechumen]

Yeah, that whole story about how the Good Shepherd will go out in search of the one lost lamb is pretty indicative of the individualness of salvation. It is not as if the Shepherd looks at the ninety nine and thinks that it is good enough and the lost one will find its way back home on its own. Nor are those lambs somehow pointing the way to the lost lamb. Our salvation is personal; our perfected salvation helps others. But again, that is the personal choice to be like Christ.

We’re saved individually and collectively. God the Father extends a special grace to each of us. God the Son came upon the Earth and died for each of us. However, he grafted us into himself and because he died, we die, instead of us dying because Adam died. Because he has risen again, we will rise again. Because he has conquered sin, we have all conquered sin.

Obviously some people reject him and place themselves outside of him. I think that Glenn Beck was rejecting universalism - something he is right to do.

I will say though, that Glenn sounds like his conversion to Mormonism was more effective towards his salvation than his cradle Catholicism. He is no longer an alcoholic and he appears much happier. Admittedly, while he has been temporally saved from sin by it, I do not know how this will affect his eternal salvation.

 

[Michaeljc4]

I recently watched that same episode, and I found some serious food for thought. President Obama, and men like Jim Wallis, believe in ‘collective salvation.’ In other words, my salvation depends not only on my personal relationship with my Savior, but on my relationship to others who are somehow less materially well-off than I am. If there is injustice, and I am not actively working toward ‘social justice’ (which can be a sanitized way of saying wealth redistribution), my soul is in peril. This ‘collective salvation’ goes beyond the works of mercy and charity that we all know so well: there is a direct political expression. We must (under the formulation) redistribute wealth–through the government–to make equal outcomes for people.

I have been influenced in my spiritual life by liberation theology. On the surface, it sounds great: Jesus identifies with the poor, and calls for his Church to work toward liberation and justice. What’s not to like? The problem is, liberation theology fits hand in glove with Marxism. Pope JPII and (then) Cardinal Ratzinger said the same thing: too much politics, and too much Red economics.

“Social justice” has been co-opted by people who dislike capitalism, and who–while often times well-intentioned–have no idea what happens when a government becomes in charge of assuring outcomes for its citizens. “It is for freedom that Christ has set us free.”

I’m still figuring all of this out, so dialogue is good. Being a jerk is not (which happens all too often on these forums). Let’s discuss!

 

[Nix89]

Thank you, all thoughtful people who replied. Honestly, I do not know what to make of Mr. Beck a lot of the time! And I do not give his preaching moments any credence. I think he should stick to politics and/or history and leave religion alone But that particular concept caused me to recall (vaguely) that there is a distinct position on something in the nature of corporate salvation. I do realize a particular kinship with members of my Faith and with so many of my immediate family casualties of Vatican II (myself included for 5 dark years) I think I have a duty to pray for their return, that they have a right to come back and that there is a place at the heavenly banquet for them that no one else can fill. We are passengers on the Bark of Peter by our baptism, yes? Otherwise what does it mean to belong to the Church?
As to Liberation Theology, it was the near ruin of a respected order, the Maryknoll Missionaries. My spouse, who is not Catholic, is very skeptical of the Church’s relief efforts as a result. Even tho His Holiness paid them a visit to get them back ‘on the ranch’ and most of that Marxist nonsense has been rooted out, I think. The bishops worry me when they espouse causes outside their area(s) of expertise but I do agree that the poor are the treasures of the Church, as a saint (pope maybe?) whose name I cannot recall said, when we see Our Lord in them. My spouse calls it ‘poverty worship’ when govt social programs are used to re-distribute wealth. But I see a distinction from what the Church does.
Good Bless!:aok: