colour

[freesoulhope]

I know that to some this qeustion may seem a bit bogus, but…

Is colour an Intrinsic part of are reality? For example, if there were no colours, not even black or white, would the universe still exist? Can a universe exist with out colour?

 

[andzy]

I know that to some this qeustion may seem a bit bogus, but…

Is colour an Intrinsic part of are reality? For example, if there were no colours, not even black or white, would the universe still exist? Can a universe exist with out colour?

I’m not an astrophysicist, but I would say: Yes.
On one hand, color is only our eyes receiving and interpreting photons that are reflected from an object (some people see colors a little differently than others). In this sense universe could easily exist without us seeing it.
On the other hand, color is an intrinsic part of the laws of physics. If there were no colors, the light/photons would probably have to not exist, which means so many processes in the universe would be missing (including our sun). However, some objects of the universe (planets, etc.) could still exist without the light. Some new objects (like stars) probably could not form in accordance to natural laws. No life would be able to exist, though.

 

[puzzleannie]

color is a property of light and how light is perceived by our eyes/brains, and no, the universe would not be the same if the properties of light were changed.

 

[freesoulhope]

However, some objects of the universe (planets, etc.) could still exist without the light. .

I’m not so sure. I’m not an expert either, but isn’t it the case that the universe began with light energy?

 

[andzy]

I’m not so sure. I’m not an expert either, but isn’t it the case that the universe began with light energy?

I believe so. However, I don’t know how exactly God created the universe, and maybe in that process light was not necessary for some things to exist.
Besides, I was interpreting the original question more as what if the colors (light) disappeared from our existing universe.

 

[drafdog]

The reflection and absorption of certain wavelengths of light (colors) is a result of the atomic structure of matter and is, therefore, an intrinsic part of physical reality. I have a degree in physics, so I know something about this stuff.
Did God have to create the physical world in this fashion? Maybe not, but we’ll never know.

Matthew

 

[Pete_1]

Wavelegnth is the legnth of a photon ‘string’ of light in nanometers.
Photons with a higher wavelegnth have more energy as there are more peaks per unit area.
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/7/79/Spectrum4websiteEval.svg/300px-Spectrum4websiteEval.svg.png
violet 380–450 nm (“http://forums.catholic-questions.org/wiki/Blue”) 450–495 nm green 495–570 nm yellow 570–590 nm orange 590–620 nm In reality there is no such thig as color

There would be no color if we didn’t have eyes . Color is our eyes interpreting the different wavlegnths of light given off by objects. For example a plant leaf, because it contains chlorophyll absorbs wavelegnths in the region of 380-490nm and 570-620nm etc, and reflects light in the wavelegnth of 495-570nm because its chlorophyll cannot absorb it. This is why we see it as green. We see a cat as black, because it’s fur absorbs all light If there were no eyes in the universe there would be no color just diferent wavelegnths of light. So in relailty there is no such thig as color, it’s just our brains way of making sence of things.
620–750 nm

 

[Newbie2]

There would be no color if we didn’t have eyes .

I disagree. We would not perceive color if we had no eyes; it would still exist, same as if we had eyes but were color-blind.

That would be like saying that if we were deaf, that there would be no sound. We couldn’t perceive the sound, but it would still exist, right?

 

[LilyM]

I disagree. We would not perceive color if we had no eyes; it would still exist, same as if we had eyes but were color-blind.

That would be like saying that if we were deaf, that there would be no sound. We couldn’t perceive the sound, but it would still exist, right?

Exactly - sound and colour are both waves that do exist independently of our bodies’ ability to detect and process them.

 

[Pete_1]

I think my view is there would be no ‘smell’ if there were no noses, just particles that are capable of being recognised as a smell. For example a rotten egg does not give off a ‘smell’ in the sence that it is something that can exist without a nose. It gives of partices such as molecus of carbon and hydrogen that when they come into the contact with receptors on the nose they cause impulses to be sent to the brain, and the brain interprets them as smell. If there were no noses there would be no ‘smell’ in the sence that there would just be small bits of egg that were floating in the air. Which had no ‘smell’ just certain chemical properties

In my opinion this is the same as sight, indeed there would be wavelegnths of light, but there would be no color as there would be no ‘rod and cone’ cells in the eyes things which detect wavelgnths, thereby sending messages to the brain, the brain them interprest there as color.

color, smell , taste they are all things our brain uses ot make sence of the world around us, in my opinion they do not exist without a brain, just the things that are capable of causing them.

This may sound a little stange i may very well be wrong

 

[Pete_1]

Right my last post me little sense so i will try explain it again.

Wavelegnth of light is a property of light. This will always exist where there is light regardles of wether there are eyes to see it or not.

Color however is an interpretation of this wavelegnth by rod and cone cells in the brain, in order to make sense of the world around us i.e we cant see in wavelegnths, what good would this be? Cone cells in are stimulated when light hits them. Some cone cells are more receptive to different wavelegnths, and the brain interprets combinations of impules from cone cells struck with lights of different wavelegnths, it has to provide an output for this in the form ‘we’ can understand, it does this as color. This is why we see different colors of light. The wavelegnths themselves are not inherently colorfull.

In a human sense there would not be different ‘colors’ of light without a brain and an eye only different wavlegnths of light, which on their own are not colorfull, just as light itself is not colorfull, without an eye to see it.

So…
That’s my idea, well kind of mine, i hope it makes sense my 2nd post didn’t even make sense to me when i read it!

As for sound the different vibrations would exist, but this could not be called ‘sound’, as there is no ear to detect it and no brain to process the vibrations in a form of electrical impulses which we call sound.

The same for smell etc. There would be floating molecules, but they would not be essentially ‘smelly’ as there is no nose to detect the chemicals in a compous and convert this into a form we can utilize, something we call smell.

The sences, in my opion are things which allow us to detect the world around us by altering it into a form we can percive. This things we percive are not ‘actually’ like that, in the sence that they have no, color, smell, taste, just chemical and light emitting properties. If these properties are examines by different sences we get different results, eg its yellow, it smells, it must be a rotten egg. It’s so we can interpret things around us. Indeed it is a rotten egg, but it is not yellow, as it only gives off a certain wavelegnth of light, someone who is color blind may percive this color to be blue, someone who is blind may see no color.

I hope this helps thankyou for listening to my ideas

 

[vern_humphrey]

Color originates in the brain. It is how we are “wired” to interpret certain stimulii.

There are color-blind animals – dogs, for example. And the existance of these animals hasn’t brought the universe crashing down!

 

[Texas_Roofer]

…If there were no eyes in the universe there would be no color

I disagree. We would not perceive color if we had no eyes; it would still exist, same as if we had eyes but were color-blind.

That would be like saying that if we were deaf, that there would be no sound. We couldn’t perceive the sound, but it would still exist, right?

And thus philosophy meets science. Does color exist to the blind? I am leaning toward no, the wavelengths exist, but the color IMO does not

 

[Wollie]

so do you think that there may be more senses that we are lacking?

Example.
The color doesn’t exist for the blind, so maybe something else doesn’t exist for us?

I think its a cool thought that when (and if!) we get to heaven there may be other senses and perceptions waiting for us!

Peace in Christ
~Collin

 

[andzy]

The color doesn’t exist for the blind, so maybe something else doesn’t exist for us?

For example, radiation. We don’t sense it, only its consequences. But even with sound and light: we can perceive only limited range of each, e.g., we don’t hear ultrasound (unlike dogs), and don’t see infrared light (unlike bees). And who knows what our senses will be like in heaven (1 Cor. 13:12 might be interpreted not only spiritually, but maybe also physically).
Regarding the original question, I think the answer depends on how one defines “color”. If color is our interpretation of light wavelength, then universe can easily exist without us knowing anything about it. But if color is an integral property of light, then we can probably only make wild guesses of what such “different” light would do to the universe.

 

[Pete_1]

Have you read the trichromatic color theory of vision, it’s pretty interesting.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trichromatic_color_vision

I think this is the generally accepted theory among scientists, it states, in my understanding that wavelegnths exist apart form the brain, but they do not have a color. The brain uses color to differentiate between things of different wavelegnths, in order to make sence of the world around us.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Have you read the trichromatic color theory of vision, it’s pretty interesting.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trichromatic_color_vision

I think this is the generally accepted theory among scientists, it states, in my understanding that wavelegnths exist apart form the brain, but they do not have a color. The brain uses color to differentiate between things of different wavelegnths, in order to make sence of the world around us.

Seeing, hearing, smell, feeling and so on only occur inside the brain. They are the brain’s response to external stimulii but it would be a mistake to think they are the stimulii.

 

[Pete_1]

Seeing, hearing, smell, feeling and so on only occur inside the brain. They are the brain’s response to external stimulii but it would be a mistake to think they are the stimulii.

Sorry I don’t understand you, my understanding is that there are 3 types of Cone cells in the retina of the eye. The pigment in one type of Cone cell breaks down in a certain range of wavelegnths, the pigment in another type of cone cell breaks down in a different range of wavelegnth. When the pigment breaks down the cone cell sends an impulse to the brain. The brain recives millions of impulses from millions of the 3 types of cone cells cells every second combinations from differnt cone cells reach the brain and the brain interprets this as color. In my understanding light has no color, just wavelegnth, our brain detects wavelegnth through the eyes and interprets this in a form we can understand color. Maybe i am wrong or i didn’t understand what you were saying

 

[vern_humphrey]

I said:

Originally Posted by vern humphrey
Seeing, hearing, smell, feeling and so on only occur inside the brain. **They are the brain’s response to external stimulii **but it would be a mistake to think they are the stimulii.

And you said:

Sorry I don’t understand you, my understanding is that there are 3 types of Cone cells in the retina of the eye. The pigment in one type of Cone cell breaks down in a certain range of wavelegnths, the pigment in another type of cone cell breaks down in a different range of wavelegnth. When the pigment breaks down the cone cell sends an impulse to the brain. The brain recives millions of impulses from millions of the 3 types of cone cells cells every second combinations from differnt cone cells reach the brain and the brain interprets this as color. In my understanding light has no color, just wavelegnth, our brain detects wavelegnth through the eyes and interprets this in a form we can understand color. Maybe i am wrong or i didn’t understand what you were saying

Now, where do you see a significant difference in those two posts?

 

[pyropam]

Well, would it exist if you were blind? YES

This sounds like the question: If a tree falls in the forest and there is’nt anyone around to hear it, does it still make a noise?