Coming to Christ to cure Alcoholism..

[dd964vet]

8 days!!! Congrats my man. Well done!!! You get a cookie! (seriously, go get a cookie; or whatever treat you prefer)

1 week + is no small accomplishment. Don’t discount it; despise not small beginnings
.
I read somewhere once that the Hebrew concept of hope is very different from the way that we use the word. More of a “certain as the sunrise” than “I hope I don’t get a cold”. More of a “The One who promises is true, therefore the promise is certain, even if I can’t see it just yet.”

Maybe that’s why St Paul wrote that “hope for what can be seen is no hope at all.”

So anyway, a significant milestone here. How do you feel?

 

[petr]

God bless you.

I’m recovering myself. Four kids. Same age.

Tap into Father Corapi. His testimony and other DVDs are very good. He has one on addictions also. fathercorapi.com/Spiritual-Roots-of-Addiction-C74.aspx

Get some prayers on cards and carry them in your pocket, the small ones. Start with the Rosary. Say it every day or twice a day - even if you don’t feel like it or are not that into it. Just say it. This is how you build your spiritual muscles and let the Grace flow in.

 

[3DOCTORS]

In our diocese there have been meetings I’ve seen advertised of a group called CALIX which is for Catholics in AA. It provides the specifically Catholic religious part that is sometimes missing in AA groups that have a more generic spirituality that’s “one size fits all.” You might see if they have a national website or a group like this near you.

 

[JMShermanEsq]

jmoneyideas:

I 2nd the recommendation of Celebrate Recovery, especially the Celebrate Recovery Step Study. It’s the same 12 Steps as AA but Jesus Christ is the only Higher Power at Celebrate Recovery.

Here is a link to the list of Celebrate Recovery meetings in Florida, including one in your hometown: celebraterecovery.com/?page_id=67

Blessings!

 

[CopticChristian]

So this is my 2nd post to the forum.
I have only recently come to know Christ through a non-denominational church, which was really cool because it was small and i had a ton of questions. My wife finally dragged me to church because she knows how bad i am trying to rid myself from this spirit of addiction. I have been drinking since i was 15 and now i am 32. We have 4 great kids and i need to grow up and stop this destructive habit. Most of the time i drink because stress from work. I know its the usual excuse but i cant get my mind of work unless i seem to have a few. I also am having slight health issues, my liver is fatty and i need to cut back now , well actually stop now!

I recently started going to a local Catholic Church by my house and have been really moved by the whole experiance. I start RCIA in January. I was wondering if any of you know of any good Catholic books or Catholic Groups dealing with Alcohol.

Thanks again…Love the Forum

I suggest you read Jesus Christ the Bearer of the water of Life…

this document says that neutral language like addiction/recovery have replaced the Church teaching on sin/salvation…

the circuit courts of the USA have designated 12 steps/AA as a religion

I suggest you look into the work of Stanton Peele…

the success rate with AA is about 10% and you have to accept you have a disease

There is not now or ever has been any evidence to suggest that alcoholism is a disease.

Accept AA=Disease…if you want to be diseased forever then accept AA…
peele.net/

 

[The_Bucket]

So now we’re bumping ancient threads in an effort to continue to denigrate AA despite having a thread exactly like this one locked in another subforum due in large part to your nonsense? Methinks someone should be wielding the ban hammer next.

 

[CopticChristian]

So now we’re bumping ancient threads in an effort to continue to denigrate AA despite having a thread exactly like this one locked in another subforum due in large part to your nonsense? Methinks someone should be wielding the ban hammer next.

Bucket,

ignore and don’t post.

 

[CopticChristian]

Hi! I’m Joe and I am, by the grace of God, a recovering addict and alcoholic; almost 6 years clean and sober now. (Hi Joe!)

I’m a little tight on time at the moment, so let’s jump right in;

Here is a link to really good blog:

sobercatholic.com/

The guy who writes it (Paul) has a lot of good sobriety and is very willing to correspond with people.

Here are a couple of Christian recovery groups that are worth checking out;

Overcomers Outreach (my fav):

overcomersoutreach.org/

and Celebrate Recovery:

celebraterecovery.com/

Both of those sites have a meeting list so you can check if there is one near you.

Remember–isolation is bad for me. Fellowship is good for me. GO TO MEETINGS!

That’s all I’ve got for now, so I’ll pass. (Thanks Joe!)

Celebrate Recovery is AA/Protestant style with the intention to convert and make you part of the Church you attend. This has been posted elsewhere.

 

[CopticChristian]

So this is my 2nd post to the forum.
I have only recently come to know Christ through a non-denominational church, which was really cool because it was small and i had a ton of questions. My wife finally dragged me to church because she knows how bad i am trying to rid myself from this spirit of addiction. I have been drinking since i was 15 and now i am 32. We have 4 great kids and i need to grow up and stop this destructive habit. Most of the time i drink because stress from work. I know its the usual excuse but i cant get my mind of work unless i seem to have a few. I also am having slight health issues, my liver is fatty and i need to cut back now , well actually stop now!

I recently started going to a local Catholic Church by my house and have been really moved by the whole experiance. I start RCIA in January. I was wondering if any of you know of any good Catholic books or Catholic Groups dealing with Alcohol.

Thanks again…Love the Forum

The thrust of AA is basically Methodism…attempting to form an internal locus of control by imposing an external locus of control. You are diseased in this model

The Catholic Church has issued a statement saying that sin/salvation should not be replaced by addiction/recovery and if you found Christ then you have awakened an internal locus of control. In this model you sinned and are seeking salvation.

SMART is essentially understanding that locus of control and implementing it. You are not diseased in this model

Stanton Peele’s Life Process program at St. Gregory is an extensive non-relgious non-12 step focus on strenghtening the internal locus of control very similar to finding Christ. It’s central focus is value based without the baggage of AA. You are not diseasd in this model either.

 

[CopticChristian]

So this is my 2nd post to the forum.
I have only recently come to know Christ through a non-denominational church, which was really cool because it was small and i had a ton of questions. My wife finally dragged me to church because she knows how bad i am trying to rid myself from this spirit of addiction. I have been drinking since i was 15 and now i am 32. We have 4 great kids and i need to grow up and stop this destructive habit. Most of the time i drink because stress from work. I know its the usual excuse but i cant get my mind of work unless i seem to have a few. I also am having slight health issues, my liver is fatty and i need to cut back now , well actually stop now!

I recently started going to a local Catholic Church by my house and have been really moved by the whole experiance. I start RCIA in January. I was wondering if any of you know of any good Catholic books or Catholic Groups dealing with Alcohol.

Thanks again…Love the Forum

Money,

Since you linked Coming to Christ to “cure” Alcoholism…recognize that coming to Christ you come to resolve sin and seek salvation…invoking “cure of Alcoholism”…implies that it is a disease…and if you accept the disease model then there is no cure…that means then that in God all things are not possible…see the difficulty here…

The first edition of the Big Book of AA actually had “recoveries” listed or cures but they took them out because they want people that go to these meetings to be diseased forever and a day and not get cured…tough road to hoe…

 

[petitfleur]

Someone has some serious resentment…you know what they say about that.

 

[CopticChristian]

Someone has some serious resentment…you know what they say about that.

Pet,

This thread is about coming to Christ to cure alcohol and for an exercise I will put forth themes that reflect the sentiment of this thread. I will do it in parts. The parts will be taking this statement and filtering it through 12 steps, SMART, Life Process, OHCAC paradigms but first just a general analysis…

Someone. There is no quote so the reader is left to wonder to whom is this directed.

Someone has resentment. This is an inference without substance based on presupposed thinking.

You know. In Hypnotherapy this is mind reading and is used often to invoke a level of deeping…ie " I know you want to relax and I know you want to forget, etc… on the other hand it is dysfunctional in the context as follows…

You know what they say about that. How do you know they know and how do you know what it is you are referring to. You see this quite often in dysfunctional thinking ie “you should know how I feel”…now for the paradigm…

**
AA/12 steps…Paradigm…**

You sit in a circle, the ritual sayings are performed and the most important one “if you want what we got”…what is it that you got and how do I get it?..then everyone has a say…no cross talk and the last guy says…

Someone has some serious resentment…you know what they say about that.

There is no discussion, everyone joins hands and the Lord’s prayer is said as part of the service and then hands are moved up and down and everyone says…”it works, if you work it”…and then you wonder…what did that guy mean by that. You are new and then you ask an older guy…and he says it’s in the book.

You go to the Concordance of AA and find all these entries and read a few…

Resentment, 13, 15, 18, 64, 66, 68, 79, 84, 100, 105, 117, 118, 126, 145, 185, 263, 357, 362, 459, 521, 547, 548, 551, 552, 556
Resentments, 62, 64, 66, 70, 244, 292, 325, 371, 376, 380, 471, 511, 513, 560

Here are a few references to resentment…

In dealing with resentments, we set them on paper. We listed people, institutions or principles with whom we were angry. We asked ourselves why we were angry. In most cases it was found that our self-esteem, our pocketbooks, our ambitions, our personal relationships

It is plain that a life which includes deep resentment leads only to futility and unhappiness.

We have listed and analyzed our resentments. We have begun to comprehend their futility and their fatality. We have commenced to see their terrible destructiveness. We have begun to learn tolerance, patience and good will toward all men, even our enemies, for we look on them as sick people. We have listed the people we have hurt by our conduct, and are willing to straighten out the past if we can.

Because of resentment and drinking, he had not paid alimony to his first wife

.

Then you think you understand that the guy was saying that resentment causes drinking…you call your sponsor and discuss this and your sponsor says…lets say the sinners prayer and go to 90 meetings in 90 days…and for 90 days at least daily, you say “I am an alcoholic”…sometimes 3 times a day…and then when you finally see this guy that said this……he says…huh…Oh I don’t know why I said that…then 5 years later you realize that every time you hear someone say something it comes right out of this book and for 5 years, daily you have been saying “ I am an alcoholic”…and “I am diseased, never to be cured”….

Then after 5 years you go to meetings looking for “pigeons” to take them through this process…

Now since this thread is about coming to Christ to cure Alcoholism it is obvious that this mode is not related to sin and salvation in coming to Christ…

 

[EasterJoy]

In the old days, we’d say that we all have an “addiction”, as evidenced by our concupiscence. We all have some sin that has a glamour that attracts us in spite of the harm it does to us and to others. In fact, I was struck when I read the AA steps how much they are like how Catholics look at the moral life. It is all about making a change by first admitting that you do not have the power to make it:

1. We admitted we were powerless over sin—that our lives were unmanageable, except for the power of God’s grace.
2. Came to believe that Jesus Christ, by his saving Death and Resurrection, could restore us to grace and friendship with God, a state outside of which our lives are absurd.
3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God, even though he is far beyond our understanding, as best as we can understand Him, and accepted or renewed the vows of our baptism.
4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to our confessor being the exact nature of our wrongs.
6. Were repentant: that is, entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.
7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings, absolve our sins, and restore us to friendship with Him.
8. Having made this list of all the offenses we had committed and all persons we had harmed, became willing to make amends to them all.
9. Upon the advice of our confessor, made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
10. Continued to examine our consciences and frequent the Sacrament of Penance and to truly avail ourselves of the Act of Penitence at Mass, we admitted our wrongs and continually sought to amend our faults.
11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out. Continued to avail ourselves of the Sacrament of the Eucharist, as well as the other sacraments, in order to be given the grace and life necessary to turn towards good and reject sin.
12. Having this experience of God’s love and mercy, we attempted to spread the Good News to other sinners like ourselves, and to act according to the teachings of the Church in all our affairs.

And in addition, the Church guides us to avoid whatever is for us a near occasion of sin. For someone who has abused alcohol, that means avoiding whatever leads us to the abuse of alcohol or moral failure in pursuit of alcohol. It hardly matters what label we put on our alcohol use or whether we are physically addicted. What matters is that we value even those things which are good as nothing compared to the value of the supreme good of living according to God’s will and avoiding anything which could lead us or others away from him.

I think it is well-demonstrated that alcohol is physically addicting. I think there are also those who are spiritually enslaved to it even though they are not physically addicted. This points to the Church’s wisdom in taking on seasons of self-denial, in which we have first-hand experience of how even the good things in our lives might have taken on undue importance.

AA works wonders for some. For others, other forms of repentance and the support of prayer and spiritual friendship work better. I think the Catholic Church is a very good fit for either way of going at it.

 

[CopticChristian]

In the old days, we’d say that we all have an “addiction”, as evidenced by our concupiscence. We all have some sin that has a glamour that attracts us in spite of the harm it does to us and to others. In fact, I was struck when I read the AA steps how much they are like how Catholics look at the moral life. It is all about making a change by first admitting that you do not have the power to make it:

1. We admitted we were powerless over sin—that our lives were unmanageable, except for the power of God’s grace.
2. Came to believe that Jesus Christ, by his saving Death and Resurrection, could restore us to grace and friendship with God, a state outside of which our lives are absurd.
3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God, even though he is far beyond our understanding, as best as we can understand Him, and accepted or renewed the vows of our baptism.
4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to our confessor being the exact nature of our wrongs.
6. Were repentant: that is, entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.
7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings, absolve our sins, and restore us to friendship with Him.
8. Having made this list of all the offenses we had committed and all persons we had harmed, became willing to make amends to them all.
9. Upon the advice of our confessor, made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
10. Continued to examine our consciences and frequent the Sacrament of Penance and to truly avail ourselves of the Act of Penitence at Mass, we admitted our wrongs and continually sought to amend our faults.
11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out. Continued to avail ourselves of the Sacrament of the Eucharist, as well as the other sacraments, in order to be given the grace and life necessary to turn towards good and reject sin.
12. Having this experience of God’s love and mercy, we attempted to spread the Good News to other sinners like ourselves, and to act according to the teachings of the Church in all our affairs.

And in addition, the Church guides us to avoid whatever is for us a near occasion of sin. For someone who has abused alcohol, that means avoiding whatever leads us to the abuse of alcohol or moral failure in pursuit of alcohol. It hardly matters what label we put on our alcohol use or whether we are physically addicted. What matters is that we value even those things which are good as nothing compared to the value of the supreme good of living according to God’s will and avoiding anything which could lead us or others away from him.

I think it is well-demonstrated that alcohol is physically addicting. I think there are also those who are spiritually enslaved to it even though they are not physically addicted. This points to the Church’s wisdom in taking on seasons of self-denial, in which we have first-hand experience of how even the good things in our lives might have taken on undue importance.

AA works wonders for some. For others, other forms of repentance and the support of prayer and spiritual friendship work better. I think the Catholic Church is a very good fit for either way of going at it.

Easter,

The steps were formulated based on Protestant thinking and adhere to Methodism…insofar as Methodists are distant relatives to the Anglicans which as you know bear resemblance to the OHCAC it is similar to Catholicism insofar as it is “Protestant Christian” based.

Help me understand the difference so that I may understand Physically addicted and Spiritually enslaved.

As you know there are 12 steps for every dilema…and here you will find one persons view that differs

peele.net/treatment/index.php

Stanton Peele is in the process of launching a more rational approach to these problems and there you will find this…

I had been a gambler all of my life, losing 100s of thousands of quid. I would go to Gamblers Anonymous, and perhaps stop for a while. But, to tell the truth, I HATED the meetings. For one thing, I was in there with such a bunch of losers, telling me what to do. (Especially when I would see some of them sneaking into gambling parlors.) Fed up, I tried a different way, the Life Process Gambling Program. For the first time in my life, I was able to stop gambling and to stay quit. I saw I had better things to do in my life - and, more importantly, how to go about doing them. These are the goals, values, and skills parts of LPGP.

This Life Process can be applied to Alcohol as well…I will post on that paradigm at another time… It was the format at St Gregory’s until there was a difference of opinion with Dr. Peele and St. Gregory.

Thank you…