Communion in Russian Orthodox Church

[crownleaf]

Are Communions in Russian Orthodox churches valid? Specifically, do the bread & wine change into the body & blood of Christ in a Russian Orthodox mass? Or would it be like the Lutherans, as invalid?

Thanks for any answers,

Mark

 

[mercygate]

Orthodox sacraments are valid. Their Apostolic Succession is valid.

Perhaps one of our Orthodox posters can explain the nature of the true presence of Christ in the Eucharist; it is my understanding that they do not pin it down to an explanation, but allow it to remain a Holy Mystery.

 

[RBushlow]

crownleaf:

Are Communions in Russian Orthodox churches valid? Specifically, do the bread & wine change into the body & blood of Christ in a Russian Orthodox mass?

Yes, the Orthodox Churches with Apostolic Succession, all have the valid Sacraments.

 

[a_pilgrim]

Hi, crownleaf!

Nutshell answer (others may elaborate)… yes. Orthodox Sacraments (Holy Mysteries is the term used in Orthodoxy) are just as valid as the Catholic Sacraments.

That being said, the Catholic Church does allow Orthodox faithful to partake of the Catholic Sacrament of Holy Communion - this is especially as it applies to Orthodox who, for whatever reason, cannot avail themselves to an Orthodox Divine Liturgy and participate in an Eastern Catholic (Byzantine) Divine Liturgy (which is virtually identical to the Orthodox celebration) instead. As of today, however, the Orthodox do not reciprocate with regard to Byzantine Catholics attending an Orthodox Liturgy.

a pilgrim

 

[DJJG]

Although communion in the Russian ***ORTHODOX ***are valid, they are NOT in full communion with Rome and we therefore cannot receive communion in their churches, (except in cases of a dnager of near death). The EASTERN catholic churches (without the orthodox in their names) are in full communiion and we can go to those churches, receive communion and even fulfill or Sunday obligation.

 

[Hesychios]

Glory to Jesus Christ!

I am not sure that a Latin Rite Catholic is forbidden by the Catholic church to take communion in an Orthodox church, but I don’t have access to the Canon Law for Western Catholics. So I will agree that it might be so.

I am sure that attendance at an Orthodox church will not fulfill a Latin Rite Catholics Sunday obligation. This might be because one cannot hope to get access to the eucharist from the hand of an Orthodox priest. So if you are a Roman Catholic and visit an Orthodox Divine Liturgy, be sure to go to an early Mass first, in order to satisfy this need (if you try to go afterward you’ll blow it, the liturgies are too long!).

However, it must be noted that the Eucharist in the Russian Orthodox church (and it’s relatives: the OCA and ROCOR) is absolutely valid as stated by A_Pilgrim and others here.

As a side note, if one were an Eastern Catholic of the same liturgical tradition, one could indeed attend an Orthodox Divine Liturgy and fulfill one’s Sunday “obligation” or duty, in order to sustain one’s liturgical tradition in the absence of an Eastern Catholic Divine Liturgy of the tradition. This is according to Canon Law for the Eastern churches.

Now the Eastern Catholic doesn’t have much more chance of being offered the Eucharist than a Latin Rite Catholic, but they would certainly receive communion if offered.

 

[jimmy]

a pilgrim:

Hi, crownleaf!

Nutshell answer (others may elaborate)… yes. Orthodox Sacraments (Holy Mysteries is the term used in Orthodoxy) are just as valid as the Catholic Sacraments.

That being said, the Catholic Church does allow Orthodox faithful to partake of the Catholic Sacrament of Holy Communion - this is especially as it applies to Orthodox who, for whatever reason, cannot avail themselves to an Orthodox Divine Liturgy and participate in an Eastern Catholic (Byzantine) Divine Liturgy (which is virtually identical to the Orthodox celebration) instead. As of today, however, the Orthodox do not reciprocate with regard to Byzantine Catholics attending an Orthodox Liturgy.

a pilgrim

The Catholic Church does not allow the Orthodox partake in the Eucharist. The only way an Orthodox can recieve the Eucharist is if there is some grave necessity.

 

[Irish_Melkite]

jimmy:

The Catholic Church does not allow the Orthodox partake in the Eucharist. The only way an Orthodox can recieve the Eucharist is if there is some grave necessity.

It is acceptable for an Orthodox Christian (or, for that matter, a member of the Polish National Catholic Church or a member of the Old Catholic Church - Utrecht Confession) to receive the Sacrament or Holy Mystery of the Eucharist in a Catholic Church. Grave necessity is not required. The position you are stating reflects the Church’s attitude pre-Vatican II, when administration of the Sacraments or Mysteries to an Orthodox Christian was permitted only in danger of death or the absolute unavailability of clergy of their own Church.

CCEO: Canon 671
3. Likewise Catholic ministers licitly administer the sacraments of penance, the Eucharist and anointing of the sick to Christian faithful of Eastern Churches, who do nothave full communion with the Catholic Church, if they ask for them on their own and are properly disposed. This holds also for the Christian faithful of other Churches, who according to the judgment of the Apostolic See, are in the same condition as the Eastern Churches as far as the sacraments are concerned.

The corresponding Canon in the Code of the Latin Church:

Canon 844
§3 Catholic ministers may lawfully administer the sacraments of penance, the Eucharist and anointing of the sick to members of the eastern Churches not in full communion with the catholic Church, if they spontaneously ask for them and are properly disposed. The same applies to members of other Churches which the Apostolic See judges to be in the same position as the aforesaid eastern Churches so far as the sacraments are concerned.

Language to this effect can be found in the informational text included in most editions of the missalettes (?) used in Latin parishes. However, the text also indicates that Orthodox are advised to follow the disciplines of their Churches in regard to deciding whether or not they should do so. Presently, the Orthodox generally forbid their faithful from receiving the Mysteries or Sacraments from Catholic clergy. That doesn’t mean that there are not Orthodox Christians who do so and the Catholic clergy may not refuse to commune them under the provisions of Catholic Canon Law, Latin or Eastern, on the basis of their Orthodoxy.

Many years,

Neil

 

[jimmy]

It is acceptable for an Orthodox Christian (or, for that matter, a member of the Polish National Catholic Church or a member of the Old Catholic Church - Utrecht Confession) to receive the Sacrament or Holy Mystery of the Eucharist in a Catholic Church. Grave necessity is not required. The position you are stating reflects the Church’s attitude pre-Vatican II, when administration of the Sacraments or Mysteries to an Orthodox Christian was permitted only in danger of death or the absolute unavailability of clergy of their own Church.

The corresponding Canon in the Code of the Latin Church:

Language to this effect can be found in the informational text included in most editions of the missalettes (?) used in Latin parishes. However, the text also indicates that Orthodox are advised to follow the disciplines of their Churches in regard to deciding whether or not they should do so. Presently, the Orthodox generally forbid their faithful from receiving the Mysteries or Sacraments from Catholic clergy. That doesn’t mean that there are not Orthodox Christians who do so and the Catholic clergy may not refuse to commune them under the provisions of Catholic Canon Law, Latin or Eastern, on the basis of their Orthodoxy.

Many years,

Neil

I guess I was wrong.

 

[JohnCantius]

if youare looking to partake in the Holy Mysteries at an Orthodrox Church, you best talk to the priest before Divine Liturgy. He may want you to go to confession before DL. Because it is a little different than a Latin (Western Rite Catholic) parish where they give Communion to everyone who approaches the Altar. The Orthodrox will turn people away if they don’t know you or your background

 

[Irish_Melkite]

JohnCantius:

if youare looking to partake in the Holy Mysteries at an Orthodrox Church, you best talk to the priest before Divine Liturgy. He may want you to go to confession before DL. Because it is a little different than a Latin (Western Rite Catholic) parish where they give Communion to everyone who approaches the Altar. The Orthodrox will turn people away if they don’t know you or your background

The likelihood that an Orthodox priest is going to permit a Catholic to partake of the Holy Mystery of the Eucharist is virtually nil; speaking to him beforehand is not going to change that.

 

[JohnCantius]

Irish Melkite:

The likelihood that an Orthodox priest is going to permit a Catholic to partake of the Holy Mystery of the Eucharist is virtually nil; speaking to him beforehand is not going to change that.

Very true!

John Canitus

 

[RBushlow]

Irish Melkite:

The likelihood that an Orthodox priest is going to permit a Catholic to partake of the Holy Mystery of the Eucharist is virtually nil; speaking to him beforehand is not going to change that.

Just curious. How is the Holy Mystery fo the Eucharist distributed and what would the priest require of a potential communicant?

 

[Hesychios]

RBushlow:

Just curious. How is the Holy Mystery fo the Eucharist distributed and what would the priest require of a potential communicant?

The elements are leavened bread and red wine. The “host” will be diced into crouton-sized bits and be immersed in the wine. In the Byzantine-Slav tradition the priest will use a long golden spoon to administer the sacrament. Laypersons are never delegated to distribute the Holy Mysteries.

One must be properly disposed to receive and it is up to the pastor to use his discretion. In normal parishes the priest knows everyone who had attended Vespers the evening before and that is a very common time to confess. Confession is also possible by appointment and at other designated times but confession is not anonymous!

A visitor is advised to speak with the priest beforehand so that the priest can make a determination as to whether he/her will receive. Of course, if one is not Orthodox one would be required to complete the catechumanate, abjure any formerly held heresies (depending on ones background) Confess, be Baptised and Chrismated. Some synods will not require all Roman Catholics to be Baptised, but may accept them with Chrismation only, but the details will vary by jurisdiction.

One approaches the Holy Mysteries, typically with hands crossed over the chest, and receives as the priest pronounces a blessing in her/his name. One does not say “Amen” but kisses the chalice at it’s base and makes the sign of the cross on turning away. Oftentimes there will be blessed bread and holy water at a table nearby, this is not refreshment but provided to enable the elements of the Holy Mystery to thoroughly pass beyond the mouth.

The bread of the Eucharist is baked into a small loaf well beforehand and prepared in a Rite of Preparation at the very beginning of the liturgy. The “lamb” is cut as a cube from the center and then is reduced to “particles” while a sequence of dedications and blessings are made. The congregation will not normally observe this because the table of preparation would be beyond the altar table to one side and the altar screen or icon screen and curtain will obscure everything going on at that time. Hymns will be normally sung as the congregation anticipates the rest of the liturgy.

I hope that this helps…