Communion : what would you do?

[Intrigued_Latin]

First of all let me explain my dilemma. I am a cradle Latin Catholic 33 year old. I married my Greek Orthodox (GO) wife 8 years ago in the GO church. Although not very religious, my wife lives by the “be a good person everyday” philosophy. She rarely has attended Church and was not really exposed to it at a child. I however was “dragged by the ear” to Sunday Mass every week. In my teen years I drifted away from the Church but always believed and maintained my faith. I have regained a new devotion to Christ and the Church in my married life, and sometimes feel that I am being called into Deacon hood. ( that’s another story)

We recently baptized our now, 1 year old daughter in the GO church, mainly because of the beauty and spirituality of the ritual (as compared to the Latin rite).Since my wife is actually of Macedonian roots, she does not speak Greek, but fluent in Macedonian, our daughter will not speak Greek, and probably be rusty at Macedonian as only my wife’s parents sometimes speak to her in their mother tongue. I intend to take my daughter to church every chance I get to Eastern Orthodox, Eastern Catholic (EC) and Latin Catholic (LC) Liturgies. As a child of mixed denominations I feel it would be good for her to be exposed to both.

Here comes the question.

As an Orthodox my daughter was given Communion at baptism as is the same in EC traditions.

I would like to take her to an EC liturgy so she and I can received communion. I was told that she could risk “excommunication” from the GO church if she took communion in a non-Orthodox church.I am denied Communion in an Orthodox church so we cannot receive Communion together.

The EC church (Byzantine Rite) will administer communion to her.

What should I do ?

 

[Paul_W]

Speaking strictly from the point of view of your daughter’s well-being, you need to choose one specific church. If you teach her that it really doesn’t matter which of the three she attends, she’ll learn that it doesn’t matter which of the 3,000 she attends. And with a mother who attends church only rarely, the waters are muddier still.

Praise God that you have maintained your faith and regained your devotion to Christ, despite being the child of an inter-denominational marriage. But I don’t think that’s the norm.

Once your daughter has a solid foundation in a single church, it may be appropriate to let her explore another rite. But if her first lesson is that “it doesn’t matter which . . .” there’s a good chance it will become “it doesn’t matter.”

 

[Intrigued_Latin]

Paul,

Thanks for your advice. Let me clarify. I’m not the child of an inter-denominational marriage. Both my parents are Latin Catholics.

So you’re suggesting that I don’t take my daughter to Latin and Byzantine Catholics Liturgy’s or at least up for communion ?

I’m confused as to the 3,000 churches you make reference to ?

I would only be exposing her to Catholic and Orthodox.

I’m sure your realise that as Latin Catholics we are free to embrace the whole Catholic church by visiting and participating in the 21 other churches.

Thanks,

Brad

 

[BLB_Oregon]

There is a reality to communion, and you are running into what is currently its sad reality: we are living in schism. It is the unfortunate truth that the collective decisions of our heirarchies have essentially determined that you must choose one or the other. Join them in the prayer and hope that we may one day be united: we are so close, yet so far.

I would urge you to choose on yet another account. Of course it is permissable and at times even positively desirable to attend Mass away from one’s own home parish. Nevertheless, I think there is something lost when a Roman Catholic (I use the example of my own church) jumps even among RC parishes as if choosing between different rep theatres. Eucharist is an aspect of community, and I think we do better when we really enter into the full life of a single parish, living and sharing our Christian lives together Monday through Sunday and throughout the year. Consider the matter thoroughly in prayer, and then settle on a parish that your family belongs in, and really enter into the life of that parish. Then you will tap into what is the deepest beauty of life in whatever church you choose.

 

[Joe_Kelley]

Intrigued Latin:

We recently baptized our now, 1 year old daughter in the GO church, mainly because of the beauty and spirituality of the ritual (as compared to the Latin rite).Since my wife is actually of Macedonian roots, she does not speak Greek, but fluent in Macedonian, our daughter will not speak Greek, and probably be rusty at Macedonian as only my wife’s parents sometimes speak to her in their mother tongue. I intend to take my daughter to church every chance I get to Eastern Orthodox, Eastern Catholic (EC) and Latin Catholic (LC) Liturgies. As a child of mixed denominations I feel it would be good for her to be exposed to both.

Here comes the question.

As an Orthodox my daughter was given Communion at baptism as is the same in EC traditions.

I would like to take her to an EC liturgy so she and I can received communion. I was told that she could risk “excommunication” from the GO church if she took communion in a non-Orthodox church.I am denied Communion in an Orthodox church so we cannot receive Communion together.

The EC church (Byzantine Rite) will administer communion to her.

What should I do ?

Is there any reason not to transfer your daughter to the EC church?

Is it important if the GO excommunicates her?

Since you admire the liturgy and spirituality of the EC church, would it be worth considering transferring to that church? Such a transfer requires preparation and commitment, and only one transfer is allowed, but it is a possibility.

Why not talk to the EC pastor about it?

 

[tee_eff_em]

Intrigued Latin:

We recently baptized our now, 1 year old daughter in the GO church, mainly because of the beauty and spirituality of the ritual (as compared to the Latin rite).Since my wife is actually of Macedonian roots, she does not speak Greek, but fluent in Macedonian, our daughter will not speak Greek, and probably be rusty at Macedonian as only my wife’s parents sometimes speak to her in their mother tongue. I intend to take my daughter to church every chance I get to Eastern Orthodox, Eastern Catholic (EC) and Latin Catholic (LC) Liturgies. As a child of mixed denominations I feel it would be good for her to be exposed to both.

Here comes the question.

As an Orthodox my daughter was given Communion at baptism as is the same in EC traditions.

I would like to take her to an EC liturgy so she and I can received communion. I was told that she could risk “excommunication” from the GO church if she took communion in a non-Orthodox church.I am denied Communion in an Orthodox church so we cannot receive Communion together.

The EC church (Byzantine Rite) will administer communion to her.

What should I do ?

I do not know what sanction may be at risk from the Greek Orthodox church, but if she was baptized in that church and is only 1 year old, I doubt she has sufficient use of reason to fulfill the requirements of (Roman Catholic Latin Rite) Canon 844.3 , nor of 671.3 of the Eastern Canons. She ought not receive the sacraments in either of those rites (unless she is in danger of death).

Can. 844 §3 Catholic ministers may lawfully administer the sacraments of penance, the Eucharist and anointing of the sick to members of the eastern Churches not in full communion with the catholic Church, if they spontaneously ask for them and are properly disposed. The same applies to members of other Churches which the Apostolic See judges to be in the same position as the aforesaid eastern Churches so far as the sacraments are concerned.

Canon 671 3. Likewise Catholic ministers licitly administer the sacraments of penance, the Eucharist and anointing of the sick to Christian faithful of Eastern Churches, who do not have full communion with the Catholic Church, if they ask for them on their own and are properly disposed. This holds also for the Christian faithful of other Churches, who according to the judgment of the Apostolic See, are in the same condition as the Eastern Churches as far as the sacraments are concerned.

tee

 

[Intrigued_Latin]

Joe Kelley:

Is there any reason not to transfer your daughter to the EC church?

Is it important if the GO excommunicates her?

Why not talk to the EC pastor about it?

As an answer to your questions,

I’m not sure if I can transfer her to the EC Church, As neither my wife or I are EC.

The Godmother of my daughter is the daughter of a Greek Orthodox Priest. Not sure how well this will go over with her.
She seems to take responsibility for our daughter’s religious educations and would not be happy if I converted my daughter to EC.

I have talked to the EC Pastor and he has said that he will administer Communion to her.

Hmmmmmm… still confused…

 

[mercygate]

Intrigued Latin:

As an answer to your questions,

I’m not sure if I can transfer her to the EC Church, As neither my wife or I are EC.

The Godmother of my daughter is the daughter of a Greek Orthodox Priest. Not sure how well this will go over with her.
She seems to take responsibility for our daughter’s religious educations and would not be happy if I converted my daughter to EC.

I have talked to the EC Pastor and he has said that he will administer Communion to her.

Hmmmmmm… still confused…

He says he WILL administer Communion. But should he in the circumstances. This is going to take a LOT of work and almost assuredly a lot of struggle with your wife’s family. Good for your daughter’s Godmother! Taking the job seriously. Still, I find that a lot of GOs have an irrational hatred of Rome: they go right for the Fourth Crusade (as if they ever heard an RC say that the 4th Crusade was a great thing!) They also rant about Mt 16 with venom to rival the worst anti-Catholic Fundamentalist.

That said, the GOs are our brothers, they do have valid orders and valid sacraments. I would make as little disturbance in your wife’s family as you can – at least for the moment. Go to your EC priest and discuss the ramifications of this. You might wish to do the same with a GO priest (not in your wife’s parish) but you will probably encounter some hostility (maybe not – some GOs actually understand that people get themselves all tangled up without meaning to . . .).

You have created a problem that will not be easy to solve, but it will not go away by ignoring it or simply by smuggling your Orthodox baby into the EC Church for Communion. That is definitely not the way to go. It is not honest.

 

[Brendan]

I’m not sure if I can transfer her to the EC Church, As neither my wife or I are EC.

If you are Catholic, you can be come a parishioner at any Catholic Church, Roman or Eastern. You will still be a Roman Catholic, but an Eastern Church is just a valid in every way as a Roman one for you to be a part of.

The pastor of the EC parish is correct, as the Baptized child of a Catholic under the age of reason, the Church considers your child to be as much a part of the Catholic Church as my own

In addition, your child having being baptized in an Orthodox church means that she falls under Eastern Canon law, so Roman Canon 844 does not apply. (there might be some sin on your part for having brought your daughter forward in the Orthodox Church, so I’d recommend you talk to you pastor about it)

But the previous posts are correct, you should chose one Church or the other and provide your daughter with a consistant faith experience.

IIRC, if your wife would care to be recieved into the Church, the customary procedure for reception of an Orthodox is by the Sacrement of Reconcilliation. If your wife attends confession at a Catholic Church with intent of entering communion with Rome, she is recieved into the Church upon Absolution.

Verify this with the pastor of your EC church.

 

[Intrigued_Latin]

(there might be some sin on your part for having brought your daughter forward in the Orthodox Church, so I’d recommend you talk to you pastor about it)

Brendan,
I’m not sure I understand. How could I have sinned bringing my Orthodox daughter forward for Holy Communion in an **Orthodox **Church, whom, I might add, the Catholic (Eastern and Latin) recognizes as having valid sacraments.
To deny her of the Precious Blood completely would be a sin.

In fact, we as Latin Catholics are allowed to receive Communion in the Orthodox Church, only if the Orthodox priest will allow it.

Brad

 

[Paul_W]

Brad:

My concern is that the rites are sufficiently different that a child may not be able to distinguish (Roman Catholic & Orthodox) vs. (all the other non-Catholic Christian denominations). How old would she be before she comprehends why certain churches have valid ordinations and the True Presence, and certain others do not?

Once she is older, there is nothing wrong with exposing her to “the other” rite, but for a young child, I think it adds unnecessary confusion if you switch back and forth…

 

[tee_eff_em]

Intrigued Latin:

In fact, we as Latin Catholics are allowed to receive Communion in the Orthodox Church, only if the Orthodox priest will allow it.

I may be mistaken, but I believe there are more conditions than simply the willingness of the Orthodox priest. :ehh:

tee

 

[BruceH]

Let me start with a quote from scripture; "Wives should be submissive to their husbands as if to the Lord because the husband is head of the wife as Christ is head of the Church, as well as its savior. As the church submits to Christ, so wives should submit to their husbands in everything. (Eph 5: 23-24) When your child was Baptized you and your wife agreed to raise your child in the faith. This requires that you both start going to the same Mass often. You are the spirtual leader of your family and it time for you to start fulfilling the duties of your position as father and husband. You are also responsible for the faith education of your child, and this conflict does not fall into the category of sound faith education. God Bless!!

 

[Intrigued_Latin]

Paul W:

Brad:

My concern is that the rites are sufficiently different that a child may not be able to distinguish (Roman Catholic & Orthodox) vs. (all the other non-Catholic Christian denominations). How old would she be before she comprehends why certain churches have valid ordinations and the True Presence, and certain others do not?

Once she is older, there is nothing wrong with exposing her to “the other” rite, but for a young child, I think it adds unnecessary confusion if you switch back and forth…

Thanks Paul,
I agree with your statement, but are’t we all still trying to distinguish between Latin Catholic and non-Catholic rites. Don’t you think that the Latin Church has realxed it’s rites to be more Anglican/Presbyterian ?
I’m only 33, not having been exposed to pre vatican II and already feel that the latin church (in Canada anyway) is far too relaxed.

 

[Intrigued_Latin]

Paul,

in addtion, I plan on sending my daughter to a Catholic school so she will experience the Latin Rite there.

Brad