Comparing society then to now

[on_the_hill]

I’m re-reading Catch-22. I read it the first time when I was a sophomore in high school for an English class that was focused on satire. We also watched the movie in class. That would’ve been circa 1982.

First of all, I love it and appreciate it a whole lot more now than I did then. I’m reading it and laughing out loud. At first, I thought I should recommend it to my daughter, who is a senior in high school. But then…as I read more into it, I realize how coarse some of the language is. How adult some of the content is. It’s full of prostitutes, sexual situations, war, insanity, callousness, etc.

And I thought, ‘I wouldn’t want my daughter reading this.’ Yet, when I was in high school, this content didn’t resonate with me. It didn’t stick. So I wonder: was it simply over my head? I knew what those things were, of course (prostitutes, etc) but it didn’t mean to me then what it means to me now.

I asked my wife if she thought we (life, culture, society) were coarser then in terms of our language, the content of our media, our values, etc. She said, ‘yes, people were coarser back then.’ Look at “All In The Family.” That show would never, ever be aired these days.

I agree with my wife. So this leads to the question: Why do we feel that we are assaulted on all sides by sexually explicit, violently explicit content? We are, of course. But how is it different in 2015 from 1980?

 

[Exiled_Child]

That book makes me seriously laugh out loud, too. It would actually be embarassing to read on a bus or train…

Gore and pornography and profanity does have a different quality to it now, but I’m unsure what it is.

Both of those examples you cite involve heavy doses of subversive humor, and both were exceptionally well done, so maybe that’s a factor.

Also, they’ve both withstood the test of time, and they’ve both held up pretty well.

Maybe 99% of the dreck we’re inundated with now will eventually be filtered away? I don’t know.

 

[PaulfromIowa]

Have you listened to top 40 music lately? Been to the movies? Listened to people talking in public? Vulgar language is much more commonplace now than it was in past decades.

 

[SeanF1989]

Look at “All In The Family.” That show would never, ever be aired these days.

I am only 26 so I never watched All in the Family when it first aired but I have watched many episodes on Youtube, I don’t see why it couldn’t air today, wasn’t Archie Bunker a parody of people with extreme views?

 

[Tarpeian_Rock]

I am only 26 so I never watched All in the Family when it first aired but I have watched many episodes on Youtube, I don’t see why it couldn’t air today, wasn’t Archie Bunker a parody of people with extreme views?

One big difference today would be the speech police and the grievance industry. So Archie tells Edith to “stifle!” – and the feminists are up in arms. Archie says some crude things to the Jeffersons, and Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton call for a boycott of the sponsors. Meathead questions something about religion, and the usual suspects show up. We’ve totally lost our ability to laugh at ourselves.

 

[GEddie]

The difference is that while in the past the questionable content was limited largely to books (which relatively few read), today there is a whole web full of it.

ICXC NIKA

 

[mikekle]

I am only 26 so I never watched All in the Family when it first aired but I have watched many episodes on Youtube, I don’t see why it couldn’t air today, wasn’t Archie Bunker a parody of people with extreme views?

It could air, if the roles were reversed, but not the white against black racial themes, they would never air them in modern times, however I have seen lately SNL has been airing shows from the 70s at 8pm on saturday nights, Ive heard the “N” word used a few times, and havent seen anyone complain, so…?

Another thing, Im really surprised giving how society is today, they still censor and ban a number of curse words on network tv, (even some cable channels), seems like it would be common to hear all kinds of language on tv nowadays. The only cable channels that will air such language is HBO, Shotime, Cinemax, etc, but every other channel, they have the same rules as network tv, does not make sense?

 

[randomuser]

The “good old days” are now, today. I think nostalgia is a crock of you-know-what, and it’s a seductive trap for a lot of sincere and well-meaning people. There is more great music today than ever before, more great movies than ever before, more ease and convenience with science and technology - people are living longer than they ever had before. Furthermore, the “good old days” also featured separate water fountains (for whites and blacks), WASP’s (KKK or otherwise) discriminating against Catholics, “patriotic” groups like the DAR discriminating against great artists, the president rounding up Japanese to intern them – “under God” had not even been added to U.S. currency yet – and children (literally children) were working 60+ hour work weeks in coal mines. I reject the notion that things are worse today – they’re not. I would hate to have lived back then. Just say no to the nostalgia trap.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

I’m re-reading Catch-22. I read it the first time when I was a sophomore in high school for an English class that was focused on satire. We also watched the movie in class. That would’ve been circa 1982.

First of all, I love it and appreciate it a whole lot more now than I did then. I’m reading it and laughing out loud. At first, I thought I should recommend it to my daughter, who is a senior in high school. But then…as I read more into it, I realize how coarse some of the language is. How adult some of the content is. It’s full of prostitutes, sexual situations, war, insanity, callousness, etc.

And I thought, ‘I wouldn’t want my daughter reading this.’ Yet, when I was in high school, this content didn’t resonate with me. It didn’t stick. So I wonder: was it simply over my head? I knew what those things were, of course (prostitutes, etc) but it didn’t mean to me then what it means to me now.

I asked my wife if she thought we (life, culture, society) were coarser then in terms of our language, the content of our media, our values, etc. She said, ‘yes, people were coarser back then.’ Look at “All In The Family.” That show would never, ever be aired these days.

I agree with my wife. So this leads to the question: Why do we feel that we are assaulted on all sides by sexually explicit, violently explicit content? We are, of course. But how is it different in 2015 from 1980?

Do you think so regarding All in the Family? I rarely watch any network tv anymore, but I understand 2 and a Half Men was pretty raunchy.

Mad Men was on A and E. While no one was as overtly bigoted as Archie, there was significant sexism, and prejudice portrayed. There was a scene I remember where a Jewish client was coming to the office, and everyone was worried how to act, and made biased comments beforehand.

 

[GEddie]

It could air, if the roles were reversed, but not the white against black racial themes, they would never air them in modern times, however I have seen lately SNL has been airing shows from the 70s at 8pm on saturday nights, Ive heard the “N” word used a few times, and havent seen anyone complain, so…?

Another thing, Im really surprised giving how society is today, they still censor and ban a number of curse words on network tv, (even some cable channels), seems like it would be common to hear all kinds of language on tv nowadays. The only cable channels that will air such language is HBO, Shotime, Cinemax, etc, but every other channel, they have the same rules as network tv, does not make sense?

Indeed.

It makes my head shake, that network shows can describe things like female circumcision in “loving detail”, yet maintain censorship of words that are now frankly minor epithets. Which is worse for families to view, situations that frankly are living nightmares; or words that children hear from their fathers every day anyhow?

As to Archie Bunker, the homophobia alone on that show is enough, ISTM, to keep it in the past.

For that matter, “My Fair Lady” could never be remade or staged with its original script in our society. Sexism city!

ICXC NIKA

ICXC NIKA.

 

[mikekle]

The “good old days” are now, today. I think nostalgia is a crock of you-know-what, and it’s a seductive trap for a lot of sincere and well-meaning people. There is more great music today than ever before, more great movies than ever before, more ease and convenience with science and technology - people are living longer than they ever had before. Furthermore, the “good old days” also featured separate water fountains (for whites and blacks), WASP’s (KKK or otherwise) discriminating against Catholics, “patriotic” groups like the DAR discriminating against great artists, the president rounding up Japanese to intern them – “under God” had not even been added to U.S. currency yet – and children (literally children) were working 60+ hour work weeks in coal mines. I reject the notion that things are worse today – they’re not. I would hate to have lived back then. Just say no to the nostalgia trap.

Who do you think makes all the popular things in our comfortable lives today? iphones, nike shoes, Underarmour clothes, Uggs boots, etc etc…all made in foreign sweat shops.

No one seems bothered enough to boycott these products though?!

 

[Tarpeian_Rock]

The “good old days” are now, today. I think nostalgia is a crock of you-know-what, and it’s a seductive trap for a lot of sincere and well-meaning people. There is more great music today than ever before, more great movies than ever before, more ease and convenience with science and technology - people are living longer than they ever had before. Furthermore, the “good old days” also featured separate water fountains (for whites and blacks), WASP’s (KKK or otherwise) discriminating against Catholics, “patriotic” groups like the DAR discriminating against great artists, the president rounding up Japanese to intern them – “under God” had not even been added to U.S. currency yet – and children (literally children) were working 60+ hour work weeks in coal mines. I reject the notion that things are worse today – they’re not. I would hate to have lived back then. Just say no to the nostalgia trap.

I agree that nostalgia can be overrated, and the past is too often seen through rose-colored glasses. However, to some of your points: “Music,” as that term has historically been understood, has largely disappeared except for that which can be found on recordings (digital or otherwise) dating from before - usually LONG before - 1970 or so. While separate water fountains have disappeared, discrimination in many other forms still exists. American citizens are dying at home and abroad because our current president refuses to acknowledge that we have been invaded by an enemy bent on our destruction. “Under God” is on the currency but His Word and all references to Him have been purged from schools and all official public discourse and buildings - to ridiculous extremes at this time of year especially. Anti-Catholicism - widely seen as the “last acceptable prejudice” - is stronger than ever but in forms different from that of the early 20th Century; I stopped listening to NPR several years ago when one of its “stars” on his program referred to Pope Benedict - with much laughter - as “smelly” and a “gay icon.” Movies have largely become overblown, digital-effects-infested exercises in retreading of old plots and me-too story lines, with “stars” leading lives so dissipated and corrupt that what gets them “celebrated” today would have driven them from the public eye 2 or 3 generations ago. And while we do have wonder-working medicines today, we also have – the Kardashians. I’m not sure that was a fair trade.

 

[randomuser]

I agree that nostalgia can be overrated, and the past is too often seen through rose-colored glasses. However, to some of your points: “Music,” as that term has historically been understood, has largely disappeared except for that which can be found on recordings (digital or otherwise) dating from before - usually LONG before - 1970 or so. While separate water fountains have disappeared, discrimination in many other forms still exists. American citizens are dying at home and abroad because our current president refuses to acknowledge that we have been invaded by an enemy bent on our destruction. “Under God” is on the currency but His Word and all references to Him have been purged from schools and all official public discourse and buildings - to ridiculous extremes at this time of year especially. Anti-Catholicism - widely seen as the “last acceptable prejudice” - is stronger than ever but in forms different from that of the early 20th Century; I stopped listening to NPR several years ago when one of its “stars” on his program referred to Pope Benedict - with much laughter - as “smelly” and a “gay icon.” Movies have largely become overblown, digital-effects-infested exercises in retreading of old plots and me-too story lines, with “stars” leading lives so dissipated and corrupt that what gets them “celebrated” today would have driven them from the public eye 2 or 3 generations ago. And while we do have wonder-working medicines today, we also have – the Kardashians. I’m not sure that was a fair trade.

I could not disagree more about your “music” comment and can only surmise you’re being sarcastic to make a point. I wish I had time to listen to all the great new music I have heard that was released in 2015 alone – that’s aside from reissued material of numerous classic albums released AFTER 1970. There aren’t enough Grammy award categories to recognize all the great music that has been released.

 

[Joko2599]

-Crime is at an all-time low.
-There is much less racism now than in the 1960’s.
-There are more job opportunities and career paths open compared to the 1980’s, contrary to what pundits may claim.
-Violence in schools, bullying, and other intimidation has gone down markedly.
-Diversity is growing – especially for people of other faith and ethnic backgrounds.

I would pick no other decade to live in. I would not want to live in a racist and crime-ridden neighborhood compared to now.

 

[Sarcelle]

Interesting.