Complicated situation, need advice!

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desales09

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I plan on calling Dr. Ray about this some time, but I wanted to see if I could get some advice from some good folks on here.

My family member, who’s in his thirties, is perpetually dependent on others because of foolish choices he’s made. During his teens he spent time in and out of institutions, and time in prison during his early adult years because he insisted on a life of crime. He isn’t so much into that life now, but through these choices, laziness, and other foolish decisions he is in a position of poverty and constant need.

He’s very good at manipulating others to give him stuff. I don’t know how to help him. He threatens to do illegal things if he doesn’t get money, saying that he has no choice to “provide for himself and his family.” I don’t know what to do. Now, through a dirt biking accident, he’s temporarily disabled himself (6-12 months) and can’t provide for the woman he’s living with or her children (not his own daughter, who is being raised by my parents). How do I really help him? Just more handouts?
 
The guy sounds very manipulative indeed.

Leaving aside for the moment the question of whether or not to support him and his girlfriend and the girlfriend’s daughter, why do so monetarily? If he’s not employed and is living with his parents but goes dirt biking (?!?!!), then he certainly sounds like he has a poor understanding of personal responsibility, and a history to back that up. If you do decide to help them, why not drop off a box of food, or clothes for the little girl? (Does her mother work? Could they survive on their own?)

That aside, the only way he’ll ever grow up and take responsibility for himself is if people stop enabling him. Giving him food or clothing is one thing, and may not, depending on the situation, be enabling, especially when there’s a kid involved. Giving him money most certainly is. If I were you, I’d decide whether or not to drop off a box of food once, or perhaps every so often, but not take his calls unless there’s a very, very good reason to do so. (I can’t really think of one at the moment, but maybe there is one I’m not aware of.)
 
Thank you, UbiCaritas. I appreciate your (name removed by moderator)ut. I’ve often wavered between the desire to help him and the inclination to just throw up my hands and say, “Let him deal with his own mess.” I think your idea of providing food (and not money) is very good. And you’re right on - he has a scant understanding of personal responsibility. Oh, and one detail clarification in that vein: He’s not living with his parents - one of his daughters is. His other daughter is being raised by her mother, a former girlfriend of his. He’s living with a different girlfriend and with her kids, for whom he feels obligated to provide.

The other complication is that he became Catholic a few years ago. I know that’s usually a bad time to use the word “complication.” Sometimes it has been hard to discern how much of it is sincere and how much of it is just a way to get in and manipulate me. I started bringing him communion today, and after he received, he asked this question: “Is it a sin to sell pain medication? It’s the only way I can think of to get food for the family.” So yeah, he’s made himself a whirlwind of complication for me and others around him.
 
How do your Parents feel about the whole situation? They are the one enabling him and his GF. While you might not like it, they might not mind having them around. If they do mind having them around, then maybe you should be looking for help for them.

I have a BIL who would threaten illegal things, and I would just look him in the eye and say, you have to do what you have to do. I don’t agree with you, but sooner or later you will get caught and go to prison. But have no fear we will visit you once a month and pray that the experience will make you a changed man. Not the answer he was looking for, but I felt good. We always have given people meals (not food, they return it for cash), and any old clothing still good enough to wear, but not good enough to sell off. Along with a list of places to help because he had no wish to change.

Good Luck your parents are in my prayers
 
desales09 said:
I plan on calling Dr. Ray about this some time, but I wanted to see if I could get some advice from some good folks on here.

My family member, who’s in his thirties, is perpetually dependent on others because of foolish choices he’s made. During his teens he spent time in and out of institutions, and time in prison during his early adult years because he insisted on a life of crime. He isn’t so much into that life now, but through these choices, laziness, and other foolish decisions he is in a position of poverty and constant need.

He’s very good at manipulating others to give him stuff. I don’t know how to help him. He threatens to do illegal things if he doesn’t get money, saying that he has no choice to “provide for himself and his family.” I don’t know what to do. Now, through a dirt biking accident, he’s temporarily disabled himself (6-12 months) and can’t provide for the woman he’s living with or her children (not his own daughter, who is being raised by my parents). How do I really help him? Just more handouts?
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Your family member reminds me of one of my sons. He has no respect for authority and had no respect for his parents authority growing up. Now his life is a mess. He screwed up his marriage with one of the nicest girls I have ever known and they divorced. He has been in trouble with the law a lot during his life and is now very hostile and bitter to the rest of our family because we took her side through all of the divorce stuff. He was very abusive towards his wife both physically and verbally and emotionally. She came through it all in one piece and has moved on. My son hasn’t, She got a restraining order and he has violated it dozens of times and because of her good heart he hasn’t spent one minute in jail. He is also very manipulative and very charming He won’t do anything to help himself and won’t seek professional help. No one can get through to him and we are all afraid that he might snap and do something to someone in our family. Since no one can reach him we have decided that all we can do is pray for him and trust in the Lord. Your family member needs a lot of help turning his life around. I mean professional help. I think you have some obligation to help him through his current crisis, but let him know it won’t last forever. God bless you and I will pray for him.: signofcross:
 
This is not a complicated situation. The woman and her children are the woman and her children’s father(s) financial obligation, not his or your family’s. It would be different if they were married, but they aren’t.

Your family member is his own problem, not yours or anyone else’s.

But, yes, if there really is a need I see nothing wrong with bringing food and clothing to them. It’s a way to help some without necessarily enabling.
 
desales09 said:
I plan on calling Dr. Ray about this some time, but I wanted to see if I could get some advice from some good folks on here.

My family member, who’s in his thirties, is perpetually dependent on others because of foolish choices he’s made. During his teens he spent time in and out of institutions, and time in prison during his early adult years because he insisted on a life of crime. He isn’t so much into that life now, but through these choices, laziness, and other foolish decisions he is in a position of poverty and constant need.

He’s very good at manipulating others to give him stuff. I don’t know how to help him. He threatens to do illegal things if he doesn’t get money, saying that he has no choice to “provide for himself and his family.” I don’t know what to do. Now, through a dirt biking accident, he’s temporarily disabled himself (6-12 months) and can’t provide for the woman he’s living with or her children (not his own daughter, who is being raised by my parents). How do I really help him? Just more handouts?
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There’s really little you can do until he decides to help himself. If he turns to crime again, he can try to blame others, but it’s not your, or anyone else’s, fault.

The most you can do is give him a list of agencies, soup kitchens, social service organizations, counseling.

Don’t give him anything, and don’t feel guilty.
 
There’s a fine line between helping someone in need and enabling/ hurting them. Typically, something that enables prevents immediate discomfort, but harms the person and his/ her growth in the long term. I like to use the 5/5/5 rule of thumb for these things. What’s the impact of this “help” in 5 days, 5 weeks, 5 months? or 5 weeks, 5 months, 5 years? Does it move the situation forward? Would it do harm long-term? Does it relieve immediate need and have little to no long-term impact?

I think helping with food (basic food - PB, bread, milk. I’m going to sound cold, but there’d be no jelly) and basic, USED clothing can alleviate need in the short-term without being too detrimental long-term. I wouldn’t want my immediate help to be too comfortable, hence no jelly. Also, no designer used clothing. I’d focus only on what is life sustaining and meets a basic need.

His comment about selling pain meds is IMO emotional/ spiritual blackmail. His asking you is a thinly veiled way to say, “If you don’t give me money, I’ll be forced to commit a sin.” He’s trying to make you feel complicit in his sin. I’m wondering if you lean towards being a bit overconscientious/ scrupulous and if he’s picked up on that and is exploiting it.

If he asked me if it was a sin I’d say, “Yes it is.” I’d be tempted to add “So is living with so and so, but you’re aware of all that.” If he tried to manipulate me through that sin angle I’d be furious and I’d likely draw a line in the sand that I’m not helping to support his shack up honey. I’d say, “You know, now that you mention sin, I don’t feel like I can support you and honey. You’re not married and I don’t feel like my money should support this living situation.” (Honestly, I’d likely have said that a while ago. I refuse to spend money on things I find immoral. It’s a huge button for me.)

As others have said, the children are the responsibility of their respective fathers. His child has been made the responsibility of your parents, if I was infusing any cash or energy into this situation it would be to your parents.

Also, I’d start attaching help to his demonstrating responsible behavior. I’d be doing pure and simple contingency management - “fill out a job application online, submit it while I watch, you can have a $5 gift card to the grocery store.” “Take an online class, enroll in school, do something productive for me, here’s another X amount.”
 
You could support him by offering to babysit while he looks for a job.
 
I thank all of you for your (name removed by moderator)ut. There are differences of opinion, but there is some good practical advice of how to help him without enabling him.

Hopenhappiness, I think your response to your in-law was perfect. I intend to use that the next time it comes up. And just to clarify - he doesn’t live with his parents. He lives with his girlfriend. His daughter is being raised by my parents - they’ve been raising her since she was six months old, and she’ll have her fifteenth birthday next month.

Gary, so you experience something similar with your son. It’s very hard when we see someone close who’s going down a destructive path or not living up to their potential. I think you’re right; prayer and limited, short-term giving is the best route.

NFPWife, I really like your idea of giving deliberately bare essentials. Give just enough to meet basic needs; no luxuries at all. It’s not good for people to get too comfortable being dependent, unless they seriously can’t help it either now or in the future (handicap, etc.)

Again, I thank all of you who’ve responded - it’s much appreciated.
 
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