Concerned parents and experienced teachers..tell me what to do!

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This has been on my heart for a long time, but now I think it’s time to follow through. My work hours finally changed and I made a vow to God to give him the time I have never before had in the evening.

I have wanted to teach RCIA or other religious ed ever since I made a serious conversion. I have inquired about this a bit, and spoke with solid parishioners I know, etc.

I am 31, I have no kids, I am single, and I can’t get this idea out of my head that I’m supposed to be teaching. This is only reinforced when I learn what is being taught to the kids at my parish.

Let me just say that our priests are solid…very solid, very orthodox, and recently ordained. We love them all (we have 3 for our huge parish).

However, I have a co-worker with kids in the Confirmation class…and they are not being instructed in the faith. They are being taught “community” and “team building”, without mention of the sacraments or the need for the Sacraments.

I have spoken with her and others who just shake their heads. People try to become teachers hoping to make a difference, only to quit because they cannot be “obedient” and teach this trash.

I have to question…if the curriculum is this bad, then to whom do we owe obedience? To the lay relic who runs the Religious Ed program? Or do we owe obedience to God? Isn’t the instruction from God clear? If it comes down to teaching “team building” or “Gifts of the Holy Spirit”, isn’t the choice obvious when the people in question are to be recieving the very real sacrament within weeks or months? Shouldn’t they understand what is going on?

I don’t see how being obedient to someone clearly in the wrong is a bad thing. I’ve stood up for the right thing in the past and am still suffering for it, but I would do it over a thousand times because it was RIGHT! Isn’t this the same thing? Isnt’ THIS more important? Making sure that those who will follow us know WHY they are following, and WHOM is leading them?

Disobedience to secularism by some definitions is Obedience to the one true God.

So I can’t escape this desire to be involved in religious ed. As a woman with no children considering teaching, do I have a “right” to sit in on the classes? Can I access the curriculum?

Can I speak with the students (outside of formal class) and obtain their opinions as to what they are learning?

Can I bring my findings to the priest that I trust?

Does ANYONE have any suggestions, any stories, any advice?

Has anyone already done this in their parish, has anything worked, or have you banged your head raw against the proverbial brick wall only to meet with ostracization for doing the right thing in the wrong place?
 
Why are people being required to teach this if the priests at this parish are all very good?
 
That’s what I don’t understand.

I attend a very large parish. We have 3 priests, and the person (likely tenured) who is in charge of the Religious Ed program is a lay person.

I know that it has something to do with the curriculum chosen, and there are a lot of useless and even bad curriculums out there. I also know that Religious Ed Directors wreak more havoc in other parishes than they do in mine…but there’s the difference. I’m in a position to care about my parish and I don’t want to see this. I’ve spoken with many people, and clearly, this is a political thing.

So I’m wondering how to go about really assessing this for myself. Do I have the right to just sit in and observe classes? Do I have a right to access the curiculum? Do I have any clout in questioning what is being taught?

I am armed with a Bible and both the Baltimore Catechism and the more recent Catechism. I’m no theological scholar, but I know garbage when I smell it.

I don’t mean to go in shooting…I mean to go in investigating, which is what I’m good at. But I don’t want to silently shoot myself in the foot while trying to do the right thing, and therefore ruining everything.
 
Try speaking with the parish priests; and down peddle how you feel the program is so poor, and show what you can bring to the program.

I have been working with my pastor for a number of years in the RCIA program. He leads, I follow. I do not always agree with how he runs the program, but he is the pastor and I am not.

Given that, I started some adult ed classes; and will soon be starting a Returning Catholics program.

If you feel lead, do something about it; but be careful of being critical of what others are doing, as that tends to bring everything to a very rapid halt.
 
Pray about it. Everything will follow. You will get your answer.
 
If this program was run by the priests of my parish, there would be no problem.

sigh

I don’t feel so much called to lead as to intervene, and this scares me to death…and it’s also that little thing that tells me that this is what I MUST do. Hard to explain.

I just don’t know how to start.

Here is my thought, thinking rationally and acting on what I know and my own everyday investigative techniques (which I use professionally). Keeping in mind that normally I am looking for something criminal, the focus and way of handling this is shifted form my everyday work.
  1. Sit in on classes…(I’m focusing on Confirmation and RCIA as I have been told this is where “help” is most seriously needed)
  2. Take notes. Observe what is being taught, how it is being taught, and thinking critically about it…is is adverse to what the Church teaches? Does it meet with the goal, ie full communion wiht the Catholic Church for each participant? Are they learning the faith or only campfire logic?
  3. Obtain either a copy or time to look through the curriculum for the respective classes. What does it really say?
  4. Speak with the students…what are they learning? Their opinions? Their faith (or lack of faith)?
If I find that this stuff is faithful, then I have no problem with it. But if I find “watered-down” Catholicism, I’m planning to write up a document citing all evidence and submit it to the proper authority.

I did speak briefly with one of our new priests last spring, and indicated my concerns. He told me that he, being new, was not aware of any problems but DID want to know if something was identified. I KNOW him to be an ally, but I also know that he will not respond to information and react without evidence. After all…he’s new and he has to play politics just like the rest of us.

Does anyone have any further suggestions? As my work schedule finally changed, I now have the chance to observe classes and start gathering information, and my justification is that I am interested in teaching but don’t want to give a committment until I know more about how the program is run.
 
I would just point out that writing down your observations and submitting them is not evidence, it’s just your experience and perceptions. It’s still subjective and the teacher in question could certainly construe it to meet whatever agenda.

Further, I wonder why your co-worker with the child in the program is not speaking up and instead inspiring you to do her work for her? Just an honest question.

I can really hear how concerned you are but the plan of action may not serve the purpose you’re hoping it will, it might just make you look like an interloper.
 
The evidence is in the curriculum/ what is being taught. As this is not a court proceeding, written observation carries a bit more weight. It’ll be pretty easy to identify what is being taught in the classroom versus what the student should be learning…and with the number of people I already know who have problems with this program…well, basically a compilation is needed.

The parent in question did not come to me…I happened to express to her one day that I was interested in teachign and asked her about the experience of her kids. She expressd her experience and her displeasure.

I went to other trusted parishioners to find out more. They expressed IDENTICAL concerns and observations.

Hmm…

I already identified a MAJOR issue:
  • Obedience. EVERY SINGLE PERSON has stated that either they themselves, or the people they know, quit or did not teach because they knew they had to be “OBEDIENT”.
I have to question their understanding of obedience. We are called to blind obedience to God, not blind stupidity in the face of heresy.

If faithful, orthodox teachers are quitting or refusing the work when they see the curriculum, there is a problem. This is evidence, but unfortunately, without numbers and statistics, it’s only hearsay.

I also have to ask, JUST WHO is “enforcing” this “obedience”? And has anyone bothered to question why they should obey heterodoxy?

I see a problem with people being literally afraid to stand up and speak out against people with percieved power. As a fairly new person, though, I also see that the weight has shifted, and that the priests are faithful, not heterodox, and they are willing to respond to concerns.

But that’s not to say I want to go in without diplomacy. I feel called to teach, but I will not subject myself or others to a system that is in the wrong. I would rather research, write up my findings, obtain signatures…etc., and then present it and ask for a change ASAP. For that matter, if I find that things have already changed (which it sounds like they have not), then I will be happy to say, “YES!” to God and teach.

I also realize that the only way change may be effected is to jump in with both feet, be subjected to incorrect stuff and plant seeds here and there with the students, become an RCIA sponser, etc…and while in the system in force, get the work done that way.

It’s not an easy thing, especially when I have to admit I don’t have personal knowledge of the situation…only compiled information from many sources, and this knowledge that it needs to be in writing for anything to happen.

I’m sorry to be so incoherent. I do not have a linear thought process, but amazingly, get a lot done and am able to “think outside the box” by talkign this stuff through…sorry if I’m boring or confusing you all.

Yup. I’m the last person in the world who should be considering this kind of thing…I hope God knows what he’s doing…
 
speaking from experience as DRE, when I arrived there was no program in effect or Jr and Sr high or Confirmation. We had to start from scratch. The previous year they had used the Alpha program for youth, with various parents trained as small group facilitators. Few of those people came back the following year. With only one or two catechists, we were forced to use a small-group style program, and trained those teens confirmed the previous year, who were eager to help, to facilitate using a low-cost resource based on the lectionary. Actual catechesis for Confirmation was done during monthly candidate/sponsor meetings by me or the pastor, or guest presenters.

We have gradually built up a team of excellent catechists for grades 7-12, found excellent catechetical materials - Introduction to Catholicism by the Midwest Theological Forum, and built our own Confirmation program. The diocese had no approved texts or Confirmation programs when I started, now they do.

If you want to change the situation, get involved. Our present success is due in large part, I am sure, to the “community building” that occurred when we used the small-group method, because many of those youth, now young adults, are still involved, as catechists, facilitators or evangelists, and are contintuing their own adult RE and faith formation.
 
Your diocise should have approved texts for use, you should be able to call the diocise and get the list of the approved texts - if your parish is using something NOT approved by the diocise, I’d suggest speaking to the Priest and then going to the Diocise…
 
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kage_ar:
Your diocise should have approved texts for use, you should be able to call the diocise and get the list of the approved texts - if your parish is using something NOT approved by the diocise, I’d suggest speaking to the Priest and then going to the Diocise…
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Ditto here, but, unfortunately, that may not solve the problem either.
I also realize that the only way change may be effected is to jump in with both feet, be subjected to incorrect stuff and plant seeds here and there with the students, become an RCIA sponser, etc…and while in the system in force, get the work done that way.
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I would probably play ignorance and just tell them you want to teach (which is true). When you have the materials you can make an appointment with one of the priests to voice your concerns about the materials (if you still have any). I belong to a nice, ‘orthodox’ church with a very solid pastor also, but unfortunately it’s the lay teachers in the CCD program that water-down the material. The books are fantastic, IMO, but they are rarely opened in class. Students are asked to read the material at home (which most do not) and then they just eat snacks and play games in the actual class.
Is there a youth group in your parish? How involved is it? Are there many members? If you run out of ways of making change through the priests, then just change your own little portion of the program by actually teaching the material (if it’s good) or supplementing it yourself. And don’t ever assume the kids do any of it when they are home. For most children, CCD is the only ‘church’ they ever get. And perhaps, after some time, if you feel like God is calling you to it, start a youth group (if there isn’t already one) and encourage your class to get involved. Oh, and adoration: ALWAYS get the kids involved in adoration. It can change a life and may even ‘infect’ the families of those kids. childrenofhope.org/ (I hope it’s okay to put a link on here?)
Anyway, you sound an awful lot like me - I get a zeal for something and I just HAVE to do it - especially if it’s something upsetting in the parish.
The best piece of advice I can offer you is to focus on the positive. Don’t get too caught up in what’s wrong, but move into action to make things right. Get excited about being used as an instrument to bring these children to the true faith! Even if it’s only one small group that you are quietly instructing, get them into it and you might just see things take off! You will be a witness to your faith and so will your kids.
I pray that God will lead you to do His Will in this circumstance, and may His Spirit inspire all your works.
~donna
 
There’s an old saying, JCPhoenix, “Faith is caught, not taught.” I just heard a priest say the other day, that Jesus imparted his doctrine to the apostles. I really like that word. I’m not saying knowledge is secondary, by any means.

I was fortunate to be an A student in school. I grasped intellectually and memorized all the truths of our faith, since the nuns in those days quizzed us after requiring us to memorize the Catechism. I could give it to you verbatum. Although I had full knowledge, there was not imparted to me a relationship with the Lord Jesus. Maybe it was not my time, or maybe the nuns had a wrong focus which centered on learning the facts of our faith without the heart of it.

When I began teaching CCD to 7th graders, I felt that God wanted me to “show them Jesus” above all else, and I’m happy to share that the classes achieved their goal. So much so, that these kids asked my pastor if they could come a second night for another class! Permission was granted, so our young adults now came twice a week.

We had the Sadlier series in our parish, and I found it to be very deficient, but I was able to rely on God in order to ad-lib beyond the scant information that was available. A teacher who is on fire for Christ can impart many truths and facilitate learning that will flow down from the head, and rest secure in the heart.

No matter what teaching aid you are able to obtain that might better instruct these students, if it does not reach the heart, it is liable to be dismissed as just another piece of homework that has little effect on one’s spirit.

As I said, Sadlier was not the best series to work with, but it was not a hindrance to me. You would be better to obtain teachers where the kids see Jesus in action in the classroom, and catch the spirit to follow Him. That’s when true learning takes place and endures, I believe.

If it were me, I would teach by example, which is probably the essence of the call you are receiving from God. He will work wonders on your behalf, and move you later on to help the others. I would not say anything at this point in time, but just be attentive to what God desires of you.

Just a thought,
Carole
 
When I taught Sunday School, I took the learning objectives that the Archdiocese put out, and taught to that. I used the textbook as a resource, but I didn’t rely on it. I used mostly lecture and discussion. I tried to make it fun, too. I also tried to teach to things that I was certain they didn’t know. In one class of 7th graders (13 in all), only one student had ever heard of purgatory. I also was sure to teach them about mortal sin and venial sins since it is an issue that could affect their salvation. I also bought as many tracts as I could afford and sent them home with them. I considered it part of my tithe.

One time, after I taught the kids about purgatory and sent literature home, one of the boys returned and told me that his dad said that purgatory wasn’t real and he didn’t have to believe in it. That boy would be 19 now. I hope he is still in the Church.

When my children are older, I plan to return to teaching catechism. When I left though, my idea was that to make a real impact, we needed to educate the parents. So, I helped start a Familia program at Church. Unfortunately, as I have had more children, I’ve had to pull out of that too. When I return to teaching, I hope that I can really involve the parents.

Teaching is a true vocation and it sounds like you’ve got the “call.”
Jump in prayerfully and trust that God will bless your efforts.
 
Thanks, everyone, for your advice!

I have been told that some of the teachers who have quit did try to use the book only as a guideline and tried to actually teach the faith…and with great gusto, “bringing Christ to them” not just intellectually, but personally.

The lay “Nazi” had a problem with this and enforced the “feel-good-all-about-me-and-community” bull.

So the teachers left.

I’m a bit of a defiant soul, but I’m not an idiiot. I do want to do something, and I really feel more called to RCIA, but then again, God may send me to Confirmation class or something else.

We have a ministry fair coming up in February and I intend to inquire with the different groups and obtain some more info. And maybe to to Father beforehand to ask how best to enter. He’s solid and I’ll trust his advice and direction in this.

Please don’t get the idea that my parish is heterodox or anything like that. My parish overall is very orthodox, but it’s also very large, and as such, problems tend to occurr. I think the stuff with Religious Ed is just a holdover from older days, and the pendulum is swinging.

I think our parish will be better if we can eliminate some of the Cafeteria Catholicism at the source…education.

We are living in difficult times, and if people have not really been taught their faith, they don’t know how to internalize it…and where to go when the stuff really hits the fan.

Please pray for me as I discern this, and more importantly, pray for my parish.
 
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JCPhoenix:
Thanks, everyone, for your advice!

I have been told that some of the teachers who have quit did try to use the book only as a guideline and tried to actually teach the faith…and with great gusto, “bringing Christ to them” not just intellectually, but personally.

The lay “Nazi” had a problem with this and enforced the “feel-good-all-about-me-and-community” bull.

So the teachers left.

I’m a bit of a defiant soul, but I’m not an idiiot. I do want to do something, and I really feel more called to RCIA, but then again, God may send me to Confirmation class or something else.

We have a ministry fair coming up in February and I intend to inquire with the different groups and obtain some more info. And maybe to to Father beforehand to ask how best to enter. He’s solid and I’ll trust his advice and direction in this.

Please don’t get the idea that my parish is heterodox or anything like that. My parish overall is very orthodox, but it’s also very large, and as such, problems tend to occurr. I think the stuff with Religious Ed is just a holdover from older days, and the pendulum is swinging.

I think our parish will be better if we can eliminate some of the Cafeteria Catholicism at the source…education.

We are living in difficult times, and if people have not really been taught their faith, they don’t know how to internalize it…and where to go when the stuff really hits the fan.

Please pray for me as I discern this, and more importantly, pray for my parish.
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You know I will…pray for you…I wish we had more folks like you 👍
 
My own one-year experience as a CCD teacher for a Confirmation class:

I was informed that “the students do not like to read text books, so we have a text book but we will not be using it.” Instead, we were supposed to do stuff like draw posters and “discuss things.”

So here was my approach. I snuck in the Catechism of the Catholic Church in my book bag. When the classroom door closed and it was just me and the students, the Catechism appeared, and that’s what my students learned from.

One day, I strode into class and announced, “Today we will be discussing MORTAL SIN. I will read you the definition of mortal sin from the Catechism, give you a list of some common mortal sins, and then open it up for your questions. You may ask anything you want … any topic is fair game.” Every jaw dropped, all eyes widened. It was the quietest, most respectful, most paying-attention-to-the-teacher class I ever taught!

Felt like I was in the catacombs having to sneak in the Catechism without telling anyone or asking permission, but IMHO, it got the job done. 😉

Prayers to you, kindred bird-of-a-feather JC_Phoenix! 🙂 👍

~~ the phoenix
 
You need to keep this in the forefront. If no one is currently “quitting”, or voicing an objection, the priests might just think everything is dandy. Get in there, get the materials, and talk to the priest.
 
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JCPhoenix:
The evidence is in the curriculum/ what is being taught. As this is not a court proceeding, written observation carries a bit more weight. It’ll be pretty easy to identify what is being taught in the classroom versus what the student should be learning…and with the number of people I already know who have problems with this program…well, basically a compilation is needed.

The parent in question did not come to me…I happened to express to her one day that I was interested in teachign and asked her about the experience of her kids. She expressd her experience and her displeasure.

I went to other trusted parishioners to find out more. They expressed IDENTICAL concerns and observations.

Hmm…

I already identified a MAJOR issue:
  • Obedience. EVERY SINGLE PERSON has stated that either they themselves, or the people they know, quit or did not teach because they knew they had to be “OBEDIENT”.
I have to question their understanding of obedience. We are called to blind obedience to God, not blind stupidity in the face of heresy.

If faithful, orthodox teachers are quitting or refusing the work when they see the curriculum, there is a problem. This is evidence, but unfortunately, without numbers and statistics, it’s only hearsay.

I also have to ask, JUST WHO is “enforcing” this “obedience”? And has anyone bothered to question why they should obey heterodoxy?

I see a problem with people being literally afraid to stand up and speak out against people with percieved power. As a fairly new person, though, I also see that the weight has shifted, and that the priests are faithful, not heterodox, and they are willing to respond to concerns.

But that’s not to say I want to go in without diplomacy. I feel called to teach, but I will not subject myself or others to a system that is in the wrong. I would rather research, write up my findings, obtain signatures…etc., and then present it and ask for a change ASAP. For that matter, if I find that things have already changed (which it sounds like they have not), then I will be happy to say, “YES!” to God and teach.

I also realize that the only way change may be effected is to jump in with both feet, be subjected to incorrect stuff and plant seeds here and there with the students, become an RCIA sponser, etc…and while in the system in force, get the work done that way.

It’s not an easy thing, especially when I have to admit I don’t have personal knowledge of the situation…only compiled information from many sources, and this knowledge that it needs to be in writing for anything to happen.

I’m sorry to be so incoherent. I do not have a linear thought process, but amazingly, get a lot done and am able to “think outside the box” by talkign this stuff through…sorry if I’m boring or confusing you all.

Yup. I’m the last person in the world who should be considering this kind of thing…I hope God knows what he’s doing…
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The problem indeed seems to be very complex and a large scale investigation is most certainly warranted. It is great that you are applying your investigative techniques aquired from your criminological practice, but I think more could be done. But at this point, I am being perplexed at the gravity of the situation, I wish you the best of lucks on your quest!
 
Hi. Just a thought, but maybe taking your approach of sitting in and taking notes is a good place to start - then if and when you find problems…ask your Priest to question the kids, quietly, about what they’re learning. Bring your friends who have problems with what is being taught in with you, and explain the situation to him. God will do the rest. If your Priest is like you say - something will be done.

My Parish is very good with this sort of thing as well - Our Priest would be livid about such lax teaching.

Good luck and God bless.

John
 
For what it’s worth, you may be able to effect change from the inside rather than the outside. Go to the ministry fair and volunteer to teach. Spend some time in the classroom with the kids or adults and the materials provided. If things turn out to be as bad as the people you’ve talked to say they are, as a group (not just by yourself, but with these other people) talk to the priest you feel to be the most sympathetic. I think you might be taken more seriously with any issues you have if you’ve been in the system, versus an observer. I’m wondering why no one else is doing anything? Are they just afraid to speak up? Maybe you can be the catalyst for change. Or, you’ll get involved in religious ed and find out these people just had axes to grind. Good luck to you!
 
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