Confession and confessionals

[Phemie]

Do you stop loving your children when they do something disobedient or which hurts you, then? Do they have to say sorry before you can go back to loving them?

No, you don’t but you still ask them to apologize.

 

[tee_eff_em]

Ours had been used as storage until a reno in 1999 where the space was used to install a bathroom. Our only option is the Reconciliation Room.

I brought up the issue of privacy at a meeting with the bishop and priests from the diocese last spring, when in the name of safety for priests and penitents (and of keeping insurance rates down?) it was announced that confessionals would be designed in such a way that both penitent and priest would be fully visible from outside and there was no ‘screen’ available. One priest there was incensed that a penitent should wish anonymity because “How can we counsel someone we don’t know?”

I quoted Canon Law and was informed that safety was more important.

Which canon speaks to ‘anonymity’?

tee

 

[Phemie]

Which canon speaks to ‘anonymity’?

tee

OK, perhaps anonymity is the wrong word, since you’d hardly be anonymous if the priest recognizes your voice, but certainly canon law says that you don’t have to ‘face’ the priest.

It’s hard enough confessing to your boss, you shouldn’t have to face him while you do so. I should still be able to slip in to the confessional, kneel and confess without Fr. seeing me.

 

[Elizabeth502]

Replying to posts 18, 20, 21:

I don’t think the point is to stress the “need” for an apology. The point is for the priest to communicate the ineffable experience of receiving the fullness of God’s mercy after a thorough examination of conscience & complete emptying of that on the part of the penitent. Confession is not described enough as a positive experience – & it’s not so positive unless the right preparation is done. Then it’s powerful & then you want to return to it. This is emphasized in Fr. Larry Richards’ excellent CD, “Confession,” which I thank whoever on CAF recommended to me on one thread.

 

[Lepanto]

Which canon speaks to ‘anonymity’?

tee

Canon 964 talks about a “fixed grille.” Please note, however, that Canon Law is not meant to provide construction details and blueprints for confessionals. Common sense and tradition also should be engaged, and both common sense and tradition favor at least the availability of anonymity.

Can. 964 §1 The proper place for hearing sacramental confessions is a church or oratory.

§2 As far as the confessional is concerned, norms are to be issued by the Episcopal Conference, with the proviso however that confessionals, which the faithful who so wish may freely use, are located in an open place, and fitted with a fixed grille between the penitent and the confessor.

§3 Except for a just reason, confessions are not to be heard elsewhere than in a confessional.

intratext.com/IXT/ENG0017/_P3E.HTM

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Ours had been used as storage until a reno in 1999 where the space was used to install a bathroom. Our only option is the Reconciliation Room.

I brought up the issue of privacy at a meeting with the bishop and priests from the diocese last spring, when in the name of safety for priests and penitents (and of keeping insurance rates down?) it was announced that confessionals would be designed in such a way that both penitent and priest would be fully visible from outside and there was no ‘screen’ available. One priest there was incensed that a penitent should wish anonymity because “How can we counsel someone we don’t know?”

I quoted Canon Law and was informed that safety was more important.

The Sacrament of Confession is not meant to be a counseling session. How does a screen jeopardize safety?

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I have read that confessionals were originally introduced to give the women penitents privacy. A man was expected to be brave enough confess face to face in the altar area.

Years ago, the spiritual assistant for my OCDS group, gave a talk on the history of confession.

From what I remember.

At one time, private confessions were condemned by the Church.
Confessions were given before the congregation, but there were only three sins that required confession. Apostasy or rejection of faith, theft, and adultery.

However, in [Ireland] when the Church was persecuted and churches were closed, religious were confined behind the walls of monasteries. As a result, the monasteries built rooms adjacent to the outside wall. People could enter the exterior part of the room through a door, and a little window was all the access he had to the priest on the other side in the interior part of the room. There a person could confess their sins, receive spiritual counseling, or other messages to take to the outside world. However, confession in this manor was so positive, that the practice spread until the Church lifted the ban on private confessions and what we have today became the norm.

Anyway, the priest who taught this class, just got back from Rome finishing his doctorate, and I now can bother him for the actual information on this. When I get it, I’ll post it in here.

Jim

 

[tee_eff_em]

Canon 964 talks about a “fixed grille.” Please note, however, that Canon Law is not meant to provide construction details and blueprints for confessionals. Common sense and tradition also should be engaged, and both common sense and tradition favor at least the availability of anonymity.

I disagree (And perhaps we are at an impasse). Neither common sense nor tradition leads me to infer anonymity.

tee

 

[Joe17]

Just to add:Concerning the confessions of women/girls-at least by pre-VII standards-a confessional was to be used.A priest was not to hear them outside of the confessional unless there was serious reason-sick call, unavailability of another confessor for a forseeable time(possibly). The overfamiliarity we have gotten accustomed to has not been, as a rule, for the better.

Joe

 

[Elizabeth502]

Seeking clarification, Joe.

Confession is ‘overfamiliar’ how? In the manner/style of confession? Or in its frequency? Because I, for one, wish that confession were more frequent, not less so.

 

[Joe17]

Elizabeth,

Sorry, I wrote without explaining what I was thinking. By over familiarity, I was thinking more about men and women in general being too familiar with each other, not necessarily a penitent and one’s confessor. The Church wants to accomodate the penitent and their ability/willingness to confess in any way permissible and proper. For a woman to say certain things to a man, even a priest, it is recognised that to have certain precautions/aides, when possible, is best. It helps both parties to stay focused and brings the level of possible embarassment down, esspecially when concerning sins of the sixth and ninth commandments.
That aside, society in general has put the level of familiarity at new levels. Some of the things discussed today in mixed company should be avoided. Just looking at some of the topic headlines, particularly in the morality forum, I think proves my point. Talk later.

Joe

 

[Chatter163]

Another point…did any of the scandals of a few years ago ever involve inappropriate solictation in the confessional? There seems to have developed such a fixation on having glass doors, yet most of the cases that I read about began with personal contacts through parish activities. Even if there were such horrible incidents, what do glass doors acomplish, since no one can hear what is being said?

Sounds like Maria Monk stories being revived.

 

[Joe_Kelley]

It is interesting to note that the glass is only necessary because they got rid of the grill which completely separated the two compartments when they went to face-to-face confessions. The old way had a purpose.

 

[tee_eff_em]

Another point…did any of the scandals of a few years ago ever involve inappropriate solictation in the confessional?

I cannot say. But I can say that the scandals *of a few years ago *are not the only ones the Church has ever known.

Even if there were such horrible incidents, what do glass doors acomplish, since no one can hear what is being said?

The Church uses the term *Solicitation *in a more technical sense than many are accustomed, including not only the temptation to but also the commision of carnal sin within the confessional. cf Solicitation.

tee

 

[bquinn]

A parish that does not offer confessionals with a fixed screen/grill is in violation of Canon Law (not to mention centuries of common-sense and tradition).

Can. 964 §1 The proper place for hearing sacramental confessions is a church or oratory.§2 As far as the confessional is concerned, norms are to be issued by the Episcopal Conference, with the proviso however that confessionals, which the faithful who so wish may freely use, are located in an open place, and fitted with a fixed grille between the penitent and the confessor.

§3 Except for a just reason, confessions are not to be heard elsewhere than in a confessional.

intratext.com/IXT/ENG0017/_P3E.HTM

My Spiritual director normally hears my confession in his office. Often times a Priest would come to my home for social reasons, and would hear my confession. Is this wrong???

 

[FrDavid96]

My Spiritual director normally hears my confession in his office. Often times a Priest would come to my home for social reasons, and would hear my confession. Is this wrong???

Note the words “Except for a just reason”
What you’ve described is normally considered to be indeed a “just reason.”

 

[Joannm]

My Spiritual director normally hears my confession in his office. Often times a Priest would come to my home for social reasons, and would hear my confession. Is this wrong???

I too often go to confession in my director’s office following a session. It seems kind of silly after sitting and talking for an hour having to go over to the church just for confession.

 

[bquinn]

Note the words “Except for a just reason”
What you’ve described is normally considered to be indeed a “just reason.”

Thank you!!

 

[Lepanto]

I too often go to confession in my director’s office following a session. It seems kind of silly after sitting and talking for an hour having to go over to the church just for confession.

Spiritual direction changes the situation. Spiritual direction and confession are complementary–but different–things.

“Normal” confession is not (and does not need) spiritual direction. Normal confession simply requires contrition, confessing of sins, act of contrition, and reparation on the part of the penitent, plus of course the absolution from the confessor. If any spiritual direction is given within the context of a “normal” confession that’s icing on the cake, but it is not part of the rite and not usually a good idea if there are people lined up to have their confessions heard.

 

[Simon_X]

I have a question regarding confession and the set up of confessionals.

My personal preference is to go behind the screen, rather than face to face…I like the privacy this way.

My understanding is that normally both options are to be offered, the screen and face to face.

Well, in my former parish there was no option for the screen. Furthermore, the door to the confessional had a clear glass window, that was unobstructed, so anyone could see the penitent in the confessional. My understanding was the confession was to be private.

Is this set-up illicit or invalid in anyway? Thanks for the help!

Hi Mary,

I ve read through the many responses and I think they pretty much answered your question. But I still wanted to respond. You mentioned this situation was at your former parish? Does your new parish offer the behind the screen option? If so, great. You always have the option of going to another church if one is available in your area too.

Also, don’t totally discount the face to face method. I like both, but have found that going face to face can sometimes help in both confessing and getting advice from the priest.

Take Care and God Bless!