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gracelife
Guest
At what point are sins forgiven. After confession with absolution or after penace?
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FightingFat
Guest
Why is this important to you?
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gracelife
Guest
Because someone told me that Catholics aren’t forgiven until after they do Penance. I think they are wrong, but I’m not sure.
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Verita
Guest
After confession. Penance does not effect whether God forgives you or not, it is merely heal your relationship with God that was damaged by your sin.
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gracelife
Guest
That’s what I thought Verita. Where can I read that officially? I was looking through the Catechism, but was not coming up with anything.
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Verita
Guest
It doesn’t seem that the CC spells it right out, but these might be helpful:
1422 “Those who approach the sacrament of Penance obtain pardon from God’s mercy for the offense committed against him, and are, at the same time, reconciled with the Church which they have wounded by their sins and which by charity, by example, and by prayer labors for their conversion.”[4]
1459 Many sins wrong our neighbor. One must do what is possible in order to repair the harm (e.g., return stolen goods, restore the reputation of someone slandered, pay compensation for injuries). Simple justice requires as much. But sin also injures and weakens the sinner himself, as well as his relationships with God and neighbor. Absolution takes away sin, but it does not remedy all the disorders sin has caused.[62] Raised up from sin, the sinner must still recover his full spiritual health by doing something more to make amends for the sin: he must “make satisfaction for” or “expiate” his sins. This satisfaction is also called “penance.”
1422 “Those who approach the sacrament of Penance obtain pardon from God’s mercy for the offense committed against him, and are, at the same time, reconciled with the Church which they have wounded by their sins and which by charity, by example, and by prayer labors for their conversion.”[4]
1459 Many sins wrong our neighbor. One must do what is possible in order to repair the harm (e.g., return stolen goods, restore the reputation of someone slandered, pay compensation for injuries). Simple justice requires as much. But sin also injures and weakens the sinner himself, as well as his relationships with God and neighbor. Absolution takes away sin, but it does not remedy all the disorders sin has caused.[62] Raised up from sin, the sinner must still recover his full spiritual health by doing something more to make amends for the sin: he must “make satisfaction for” or “expiate” his sins. This satisfaction is also called “penance.”
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gracelife
Guest
So I broke the neighbors window with a basedball, and apologized and was forgiven. But the window still needs to be repaired. ???
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Amateur_Soul
Guest
So I cut my finger. I stopped the bleeding and put a band-aid on it and now I am waiting for it to heal.
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Verita
Guest
Yes! Your neighbor may have forgiven you, but he still has a broken window. You need to try to fix the damage you have caused. This displays real repentance.
Or the way I like to think of it is, if my husband does something that hurts me and apologizes, I will forgive him. But our relationship has still been damaged. Saying sorry isn’t enough. He has to try to make an effort to correct the wrong behavior that hurt me. If he doesn’t, he’s more likely to do it again and our relationship will suffer further damage.
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BrownR
Guest
Why does Jesus instruct the disciples to pray for forgiveness in the Lord’s prayer, before he had instituted the sacrament of reconciliation? Why pray for God to forgive yourself in the Lord’s prayer, if you know you can’t be forgiven until you confess? Can someone explain this to me?
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Fergal
Guest
Very simply answered.
Your sins are remitted when the Priest says “I absolve you of your sins in the name of the Father and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit”
If you don’t hear those words (and it is not necessary to hear them!) it is when the Priest makes the sign of the Cross over you.
Your sins are remitted when the Priest says “I absolve you of your sins in the name of the Father and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit”
If you don’t hear those words (and it is not necessary to hear them!) it is when the Priest makes the sign of the Cross over you.
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Fergal
Guest
This comes down to the difference between forgivness and absolution, which is quite a classic misunderstanding amongst the seperated brethern.
Of course you are forgiven by God the moment remorse comes tnto your heart for the sins committed. In the Catholic faith we realise that we understand that and we thank God for it. God has, however, given the power to bind and loose, to forgive and to hold the sins of a penitent. Remember this phrase; “Those whose sins you forgive, they are forgiven. Those whose sins you retain, they are retained”. God has entrusted His absolution to the Priest and therefore we go to the Priest to make a Confession in order to receive absolution.
There is a difference between forgiving and absolving.
Lets go one step further. What about reparation?
You know there are three steps to reconcilliation with God. The forgivness of God, receiving His absolution through his appointed minister and the personal responsibility to make reparation for the sins committed.
When you smash an heirloom at home by playing football in the house, something your maother told you over and over again not to do, she knows by your demeanour that you are sorry. She wants, however to hear you say it in order to tell you it is ok and maybe to utilise the occassion to reaffirm her love for you and give you some motherly advice. Accident forgotten and forgiven.
There is the human compulsion then to go and make it up to her by buying her a bunch of flowers or someother gift that shows her how sorry you really are.
Same thing in life. Forgiveness, absolution and reparation.
It is a great pity that our seperated brethern think that step 1 alone suffices when clearly, even in human terms it does not.
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BrownR
Guest
Thanks, that was nicely explained. I’m an ex-Protestant currently in R.C.I.A and some of these concepts are a bit foreign to me after being the recipient of 32 years of “sola fide” podium pounding.
God bless!
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Randy_Carson
Guest
If I may jump in here just to check my own thinking, an Indulgence reduces the amount of time you have to spend repairing the window. Correct?Yes! Your neighbor may have forgiven you, but he still has a broken window. You need to try to fix the damage you have caused. This displays real repentance.
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Fergal
Guest
No. An Indulgence reduces the amount of window needing to be repaired!!
(And I suppose in doing so, shortens the length of time required to do the job!!)
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