Confirmation before Marriage?

[FrDavid96]

If a Catholic refuses the sacrament of confirmation, a pastor should counsel that Catholic to help them understand the sacraments of initiation and why it is required that they receive it.

Yes. It’s a teaching moment, a pastoral opportunity. Indeed, I think that canon 1065.1 puts a special obligation on the pastor to do just that.

In the case of a fallen away Catholic who refuses confirmation and does not practice the faith, then Canons 1071.1.4 and 1071.2 apply and the pastor needs permission of the bishop to proceed with the marriage. The marriage is treated like a mixed marriage and the marriage may not move forward unless the norms of Canon 1125 are followed.

I don’t think that “fallen away Catholic” as we typically use that term is necessarily synonymous with one who has “notoriously rejected the Catholic faith” which is what’s mentioned in c 1071.1.4 All those who notoriously reject the faith would be fallen away, but not the other way around.

I’m not so sure about the “treated as a mixed marriage” part, since Pope Benedict revised the canons. So as not to derail the thread, I’ll leave it at that. I think it would belong in a different thread.

 

[1ke]

Yes. It’s a teaching moment, a pastoral opportunity. Indeed, I think that canon 1065.1 puts a special obligation on the pastor to do just that.

I don’t think that “fallen away Catholic” as we typically use that term is necessarily synonymous with one who has “notoriously rejected the Catholic faith” which is what’s mentioned in c 1071.1.4 All those who notoriously reject the faith would be fallen away, but not the other way around.

I’m not so sure about the “treated as a mixed marriage” part, since Pope Benedict revised the canons. So as not to derail the thread, I’ll leave it at that. I think it would belong in a different thread.

I’m not talking about formal defection, and the ability of a formally defected Catholic to marry validly outside the Church without dispensation-- a provision eliminated by Pope Benedict’s revision code. I’m talking about notorious defection, a much lesser standard.

In such a case, a practicing Catholic marrying a “no-longer-Catholic” it is treated like a mixed marriage situation per 1071.2.

And yes, this is somewhat tangential.

 

[FrDavid96]

I’m not talking about formal defection, and the ability of a formally defected Catholic to marry validly outside the Church without dispensation-- a provision eliminated by Pope Benedict’s revision code. I’m talking about notorious defection, a much lesser standard.

In such a case, a practicing Catholic marrying a “no-longer-Catholic” it is treated like a mixed marriage situation per 1071.2.

And yes, this is somewhat tangential.

OK then.

You wrote the words “fallen away Catholic” that’s a rather ambiguous term. That can mean a lot of different things to a lot of different people. No everyone who would be described as “fallen away” is necessarily one who has “notoriously rejected the Catholic faith.”

Just as notorious defection is a lesser standard than formal defection, likewise fallen away is a lesser standard than notorious defection; because there’s no legal definition of “fallen away”

 

[Brendan]

I’m not talking about formal defection, and the ability of a formally defected Catholic to marry validly outside the Church without dispensation-- a provision eliminated by Pope Benedict’s revision code. I’m talking about notorious defection, a much lesser standard.

What notoriety is involved? That would be a key part of a notorious defection, pretty much by definition.

In such a case, a practicing Catholic marrying a “no-longer-Catholic” it is treated like a mixed marriage situation per 1071.2.

But fallen away Catholic is not a 'no-longer Catholic", as Fr. David alluded to, how many times, specifically, does one have to miss Sunday Mass before the Church considered them not to be Catholic anymore?

And yes, this is somewhat tangential.

Yea, but still fun to discuss, in a geeky Catholic kinda’ way

 

[Casilda]

There be levels of “fallen away-ness”, aaarrrggghhh


I was told if you were baptized Catholic, you are always considered Catholic. (Your name is listed in the church’s roll where that took place.)Hence, trying to marry ‘outside’ the church will always affect you. You are Catholic, so you have to do things Catholic, even if you didn’t remember you were baptized or brought up in the faith (outside the church).

 

[thistle]

There be levels of “fallen away-ness”, aaarrrggghhh


I was told if you were baptized Catholic, you are always considered Catholic. (Your name is listed in the church’s roll where that took place.)Hence, trying to marry ‘outside’ the church will always affect you. You are Catholic, so you have to do things Catholic, even if you didn’t remember you were baptized or brought up in the faith (outside the church).

If you are baptised Catholic you ARE ALWAYS a Catholic even if you walk away from the Church.
There are no former or ex-Catholics. There are only two types - a Catholic in a state of grace and a Catholic in a state of mortal sin.