Confirmation dilemma

[bflochica5]

The situation: several teens are enrolled in my parish’s Confirmation prep program who calmly but firmly state that they don’t believe in God, they don’t believe Jesus is the son of God, they believe the Bible was all just made up by people and none of it is true, etc. When asked why they want to be confirmed, they repeatedly say, “My parents are making me.” It’s a big debate among the teachers and DRE staff right now (I am among them). On one hand, there’s the school of thought that says, they’re already baptized; Confirmation just finishes what was already begun, it’s the work of the Holy Spirit and not the candidate, etc., so it doesn’t really matter if they’ve experienced true conversion to Christ because it’s not about what we do. Another line of thinking goes that these kids are not just passively going through the motions, they’re actively making statements that are directly contradictory to very basic Catholic doctrines–and what do you do with this? Would we baptize someone who was saying this? Or give them communion? And how much does it weaken our Church, from within or in the eyes of the outside world, when we put these kids before a bishop for a sacrament they freely admit they don’t believe in?

Any thoughts would be appreciated. FYI, the kids in question are high school sophomores, 15 or 16 years old. Confirmation is scheduled to be about a month from now.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

The situation: several teens are enrolled in my parish’s Confirmation prep program who calmly but firmly state that they don’t believe in God, they don’t believe Jesus is the son of God, they believe the Bible was all just made up by people and none of it is true, etc. When asked why they want to be confirmed, they repeatedly say, “My parents are making me.” It’s a big debate among the teachers and DRE staff right now (I am among them). On one hand, there’s the school of thought that says, they’re already baptized; Confirmation just finishes what was already begun, it’s the work of the Holy Spirit and not the candidate, etc., so it doesn’t really matter if they’ve experienced true conversion to Christ because it’s not about what we do. Another line of thinking goes that these kids are not just passively going through the motions, they’re actively making statements that are directly contradictory to very basic Catholic doctrines–and what do you do with this? Would we baptize someone who was saying this? Or give them communion? And how much does it weaken our Church, from within or in the eyes of the outside world, when we put these kids before a bishop for a sacrament they freely admit they don’t believe in?

Any thoughts would be appreciated. FYI, the kids in question are high school sophomores, 15 or 16 years old. Confirmation is scheduled to be about a month from now.

They need Spiritual Direction, What do their Sponsors say about their readiness to receive the Sacrament. Could it be that they are saying one thing to their Sponsors and another thing in front of their peers in class? It takes three people to decide if they should be Confirmed. 1. The Pastor, 2. The Candidate, 3. The Sponsor.

 

[TheDoctor]

Why the debate among the DRE staff? If they (the teens) are old enough to decide they don’t believe in God or the teachings of the Church, then they are old enough to decide they are not yet ready to receive the sacrament. It is their choice, isn’t it? No one is forcing them.

I teach Confirmation prep as well. Every year on the first day of class I have a heart to heart with my kids and tell them if they do not really want to make Confirmation or do not believe in the precepts of the Church, then we (the kids, their parents, my DRE, my pastor and I) need to have a discussion and decide if and why they will stay in Confirmation class.

I know kids who were not ready for Confirmation and delayed it for years. When they were ready, it was their decision to come back.

We owe it to the kids who do believe and want to be Confirmed to give them a supportive and stable, serious, Catholic group to be Confirmed with.

Would we allow a couple to marry who publicly declare they do not think it is a sacrament and will not live as the Church expects? Would we ordain a Priest who does not really think Jesus is God?

If your teens really don’t believe, then they really should not be Confirmed. Period.

Whew! Sorry brothers and sisters if this came off as more rant than opinion - it’s just a “hot button” topic for me.

 

[Chorister]

Make your pastor aware of this situation and allow him to decide on what’s appropriate.

You’re exactly correct in saying that we would not permit individuals who deny God’s existence to receive the Eucharist and so someone in that state of disconnection from the Church should not be receiving the sacrament of Confirmation.

Moreover, for Confirmation to be administered to these unfaithful Confirmed would be in violation of Canon Law, which states that “the sponsor’s function is to take care that the person confirmed behaves as a true witness of Christ and faithfully fulfills the duties inherent in this sacrament (can. 892).”

 

[true_believer]

As someone who took confirmation very seriously, I was extremely disturbed by the fact that many in my confirmation class only went through the sacrament because their parents wanted them to. The whole point of confirmation is that a person is making the decision to accept the church’s doctrines and dogma as their own.

Baptism is where parents and godparents can say that they will raise the child in the faith. By the time a person reaches confirmation, it’s time that they made their own decision about whether they will follow the church.

Furthermore, confirmation is not the end of a person’s spiritual journey, rather it is more of a beginning, and as such, it is important that those who are confirmed are serious about their faith. Please do not allow these teenagers who do not believe in the Catholic faith to be confirmed in it.

 

[Joe_Kelley]

If I have read the rules correctly, no one over the age of reason may be baptized without their consent. The same would seem to apply to the administration of all other sacraments.

We have the confirmation candidates and their sponsors interviewed by selected volunteers to ensure that everyone is clear on what they are doing and why, and that minimum requirements - church attendance etc. - are met. I remember a problem one year when it was found that those attending the Catholic High School were attending the School mandated mass on Wednesdays but not going to mass on Sunday.

 

[quiet52]

from Canon Law:

CHAPTER III.

THOSE TO BE CONFIRMED

Can. 889

§1. Every baptized person not yet confirmed and only such a person is capable of receiving confirmation.

§2. To receive confirmation licitly outside the danger of death requires that a person who has the use of reason be suitably instructed, properly disposed, and able to renew the baptismal promises.

Can. 890 The faithful are obliged to receive this sacrament at the proper time. Parents and pastors of souls, especially pastors of parishes, are to take care that the faithful are properly instructed to receive the sacrament and come to it at the appropriate time.

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

Quiet gave you Chapter III, Canon 2, which does state that they need to be properly disposed. You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink, so the old saying goes. There’s yet a further canon that says “age of discretion” and we all know anybody who has reached the age of discretion needs to give their consent.

This is why Confirmation should be given to baptized infants, IMO. Saves everybody a lot of aggravation. “Having a meaningful experience” and getting grace over a sustained period of time , no contest, I’ll err on the side of grace.

What would I do? I would set up private interviews with these individuals, with the DRE, the priest and you, as the instructor, present. I would not invite the parents, and would only include them as part of the diocese regulations on dealing with youth through Virtus, etc. I would then ask each of these individuals who are claiming nonbelief (and as BroRich has suggested, they might be just out to yank chains in front of peers), “Are you consenting to be confirmed?” and “Do you feel you are properly disposed to receive the sacrament?” If the answer to either question is “No” then they don’t get confirmed that year, no matter how big a fit the parents pitch.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Quiet gave you Chapter III, Canon 2, which does state that they need to be properly disposed. You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink, so the old saying goes. There’s yet a further canon that says “age of discretion” and we all know anybody who has reached the age of discretion needs to give their consent.

This is why Confirmation should be given to baptized infants, IMO. Saves everybody a lot of aggravation. “Having a meaningful experience” and getting grace over a sustained period of time , no contest, I’ll err on the side of grace.

What would I do? I would set up private interviews with these individuals, with the DRE, the priest and you, as the instructor, present. I would not invite the parents, and would only include them as part of the diocese regulations on dealing with youth through Virtus, etc. I would then ask each of these individuals who are claiming nonbelief (and as BroRich has suggested, they might be just out to yank chains in front of peers), “Are you consenting to be confirmed?” and “Do you feel you are properly disposed to receive the sacrament?” If the answer to either question is “No” then they don’t get confirmed that year, no matter how big a fit the parents pitch.

Something that seems to be left in the dust though is the SPONSOR. In Canon Law the Sponsor has a cruitical role in the catechesis, preparation and discernment for the Sacrament. The Pastor (or his designate, Deacon, DRE, Asoc. Pastor), the Sponsor and the Candidate. should meet. Then the parents should be brought in since they too are the “primary Catechists” for their children. They should be told what they will need to do to better prepare their child for the Sacrament. Then a plan should be laid out for the Parents, Candidate, DRE, and Sponsor to follow.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

When I taught Confirmation classes years ago, it was mandatory that each candidate for Confirmation, have an interview with our pastor. It was usually after the interview that some people left the program and did not receive the sacrament.

Myself, when my daughter entered Confirmation, she told me right out, that she did not believe in Jesus, hated the Church, and did not want to be Confirmed. I said fine, but go through the program, and at the end, if you still feel the same way, you do not have to be Confirmed. Its your choice. At the end of the Confirmation preparation, she decided she did not want to be Confirmed, and I respected her decision, although I was sad about it. She also left the Church. She was 17 years of age.

However, 4 years later, she approached my wife about attending the women’s retreat, that my wife had been making. On that week-end, my daughter had a faith filled experience. At age 21, she returned to the Confirmation program, with the then high-school kids. Her return and Confirmation, was awesome! She was recalled each year by the DRE, to give a talk to the new candidates for Confirmation, and give witness to her experience.

I disagree about the Confirming infants. I think some part of the Sacrament, must be made by the adult, in this case, Confirmation.

What I don’t agree with, is Parishes using the Sacrament as more of a means of keeping teens in CCD. Most parishes, CCD is like graduation from their CCD programs. They keep moving the age up and up until in many places, senior year of high-school.

Jim

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

Something that seems to be left in the dust though is the SPONSOR. In Canon Law the Sponsor has a cruitical role in the catechesis, preparation and discernment for the Sacrament. The Pastor (or his designate, Deacon, DRE, Asoc. Pastor), the Sponsor and the Candidate. should meet. Then the parents should be brought in since they too are the “primary Catechists” for their children. They should be told what they will need to do to better prepare their child for the Sacrament. Then a plan should be laid out for the Parents, Candidate, DRE, and Sponsor to follow.

That’s what should have been done in the first place, but wasn’t.

My concern about inviting the parents into the interview for these alleged objectors is not giving the candidates the free consent to which they are entitled, as in, “You better @*&^ well say you consent, or it’s___________” or “If you say you will, the new car will be waiting for you after Mass.”

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

That’s what should have been done in the first place, but wasn’t.

My concern about inviting the parents into the interview for these alleged objectors is not giving the candidates the free consent to which they are entitled, as in, “You better @*&^ well say you consent, or it’s___________” or “If you say you will, the new car will be waiting for you after Mass.”

Well I agree, The parents are not in the discernment process, only the catechesis. I agree they should not be in the discernment meeting.

 

[a_pilgrim]

The whole point of confirmation is that a person is making the decision to accept the church’s doctrines and dogma as their own.

This is not true. It is, however, what a large number of people believe to be true. Perhaps the Church needs to go back a step or two and re-educate her faithful on exactly what the Sacrament of Confirmation is and does.

 

[bflochica5]

Thanks for your thoughts, everybody. A few other points to mention:

• At the current time, we don’t do much to integrate the sponsors into the catechesis of our program at our parish. As far as I know, no one in the program actually meets the sponsors until the night of Confirmation. We get letters of recommendation from them, as well as a form the student fills out saying why he or she chose that sponsor, but that’s all we know about them. I personally have no idea how involved these sponsors are in the faith lives of these students, or what kind of Catholics these sponsors really are to begin with.
• The atheistic students, if given the choice, would probably say they DO want to be confirmed–but only because it’s the path of least resistance, i.e., “I’ve already been through all the classes, so why not just go through with it now; it’s not worth starting trouble with my parents; I’d rather be done with it so I can get married in the Church/be a godparent later,” etc.
• It’s a poorly kept secret that neither the students nor their parents go to church, except perhaps on Christmas and Easter. If we asked the parents why they wanted their children confirmed, I suspect it would be for the same reasons the kids would give–“It’s just the time they’re supposed to; I want them to get married in the Church; I want them to be able to be a godparent for their older sister’s baby,” etc.
  (Side note: I hope it’s obvious by now that there’s a giant misunderstanding and secularization of the whole “godparent” thing going on here too, not to mention what it means to “get married in the Church,” on the part of both the kids and the adults.)

So considering the above info re: the sponsors, students, and parents, does that change anybody’s thoughts?

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Thanks for your thoughts, everybody. A few other points to mention:

• At the current time, we don’t do much to integrate the sponsors into the catechesis of our program at our parish. As far as I know, no one in the program actually meets the sponsors until the night of Confirmation. We get letters of recommendation from them, as well as a form the student fills out saying why he or she chose that sponsor, but that’s all we know about them. I personally have no idea how involved these sponsors are in the faith lives of these students, or what kind of Catholics these sponsors really are to begin with.
• The atheistic students, if given the choice, would probably say they DO want to be confirmed–but only because it’s the path of least resistance, i.e., “I’ve already been through all the classes, so why not just go through with it now; it’s not worth starting trouble with my parents; I’d rather be done with it so I can get married in the Church/be a godparent later,” etc.
• It’s a poorly kept secret that neither the students nor their parents go to church, except perhaps on Christmas and Easter. If we asked the parents why they wanted their children confirmed, I suspect it would be for the same reasons the kids would give–“It’s just the time they’re supposed to; I want them to get married in the Church; I want them to be able to be a godparent for their older sister’s baby,” etc.
  (Side note: I hope it’s obvious by now that there’s a giant misunderstanding and secularization of the whole “godparent” thing going on here too, not to mention what it means to “get married in the Church,” on the part of both the kids and the adults.)

So considering the above info re: the sponsors, students, and parents, does that change anybody’s thoughts?

Well the only thing that I would add is that somebody need to fix your Confirmation preparation process and bring it more into line with the RCIA model as the U.S. Bishops said it should be years ago.

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

This is not true. It is, however, what a large number of people believe to be true. Perhaps the Church needs to go back a step or two and re-educate her faithful on exactly what the Sacrament of Confirmation is and does.

A very, very, very big thumbs-up to you, Al!!!

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

Well the only thing that I would add is that somebody need to fix your Confirmation preparation process and bring it more into line with the RCIA model as the U.S. Bishops said it should be years ago.

And I would agree. What you are going to do with them batch you have now is, I guess, confirm them.

Perhaps you could talk with the DRE, and see if, when the dissenters dissent, you can mention that nobody need be confirmed who doesn’t truly desire it, and that you would be happy to speak such privately, during an appointment with Father or the DRE (remember “two deep”), maybe they’ll calm down.

 

[kristie_m]

If I may chime in here…I was in a similar situation a few years ago. I was asked to sponsor a teenager who made it clear that the reason she wanted to be confirmed is because it would make her mom happy. I pleaded with her to wait, and even spoke with her mom (who merely smiled, but did not discourage her). After much prayer I decided that since her mind was made up, even though she was doing it for the wrong reason, I had to prepare her as best I could. Otherwise, she was liable to go out and find a new sponsor that would neither question her motives, nor offer any kind of spiritual guidence.

I agonized over whether or not to talk to the pastor about it (after the teen had asked me not to) and finally, after much prayer decided that doing so would only rob her of whatever blessing God imparted through the sacrament.

Shortly after being confirmed, the young lady opted to leave the church. I wish now that I had left it in the hands of the pastor. At least then, I wouldn’t feel as if I had somehow blown it by agreeing to sponsor someone who obviously wasn’t ready.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

If I may chime in here…I was in a similar situation a few years ago. I was asked to sponsor a teenager who made it clear that the reason she wanted to be confirmed is because it would make her mom happy. I pleaded with her to wait, and even spoke with her mom (who merely smiled, but did not discourage her). After much prayer I decided that since her mind was made up, even though she was doing it for the wrong reason, I had to prepare her as best I could. Otherwise, she was liable to go out and find a new sponsor that would neither question her motives, nor offer any kind of spiritual guidence.

I agonized over whether or not to talk to the pastor about it (after the teen had asked me not to) and finally, after much prayer decided that doing so would only rob her of whatever blessing God imparted through the sacrament.

Shortly after being confirmed, the young lady opted to leave the church. I wish now that I had left it in the hands of the pastor. At least then, I wouldn’t feel as if I had somehow blown it by agreeing to sponsor someone who obviously wasn’t ready.

It is important to remember that even though they receive the Sacrament validly, They receive the Graces and benefits according to their disposition. In other words they receive little to no benefit at the time from receiving the Sacrament.

 

[faqcorner]

The situation: several teens are enrolled in my parish’s Confirmation prep program who calmly but firmly state that they don’t believe in God, they don’t believe Jesus is the son of God, they believe the Bible was all just made up by people and none of it is true, etc. When asked why they want to be confirmed, they repeatedly say, “My parents are making me.” It’s a big debate among the teachers and DRE staff right now (I am among them). On one hand, there’s the school of thought that says, they’re already baptized; Confirmation just finishes what was already begun, it’s the work of the Holy Spirit and not the candidate, etc., so it doesn’t really matter if they’ve experienced true conversion to Christ because it’s not about what we do. Another line of thinking goes that these kids are not just passively going through the motions, they’re actively making statements that are directly contradictory to very basic Catholic doctrines–and what do you do with this? Would we baptize someone who was saying this? Or give them communion? And how much does it weaken our Church, from within or in the eyes of the outside world, when we put these kids before a bishop for a sacrament they freely admit they don’t believe in?

Any thoughts would be appreciated. FYI, the kids in question are high school sophomores, 15 or 16 years old. Confirmation is scheduled to be about a month from now.

note: I am getting confirmed next weekend myself, on the 19th of this month, and I am 16 years old as well.

Don’t let them. It’s not a question of the kid being baptised or not. For most people, baptism was a time you didn’t even remember. when you were a baby. Therefore can’t really do so. Also, I think it was a grave sin to contradict the church like that, thus they shouldn’t be getting communion.

Confirmation is not required, it is the voluntary choice by the participate that they believe everything that the Catholic Church says. thus then they are now…saying that they are not believers, at the same time as saying by confirmation that they DO believe.

Confirmation, even though usually it is, is NOT a forced decision. I know my friend is holding off this year because he doesn’t think he knows everything needed to accept fully his faith (I think)

Don’t let them get confirmed until they agree to the Church’s teachings.