Confirmation in the Second Grade?

[TJD]

I have heard that the Church is experimenting in some diocese and some parishes with confirming kids at their first Communion? I think it makes much more sense to confirm later when they can maturely consent and be expected to act like an adult in their faith.

When does your church confirm the cradle Catholics? When do you think the best time is?

My Church confirms their young it in the 7th or 8th Grade. (Confirmation every other year) I think 8th grade is best.

Accept the Holy Spirit and do good.

 

[puzzleannie]

there are numerous threads on age for confirmation, a search will be very helpful. several dioceses have permission to experiment with Restoring the Original Order of the Sacraments, following the catechetical documents of the Church which urge us to pattern all sacramental prepartion on the RCIA model(. None of this discussion applies to Eastern Rites, which usually confirm and give communion with baptism.)

Canon law in the Latin rite permits confirmation and first communion (which must be followed by first penance) any time after the age of reason (about 7) or “catechetical age” up to age 18. There are all kinds of arguments supporting any age range in between.

Most of these opinions are based on emotion, pedagogical concerns or other reasons that have nothing to do with the theology of Confirmation.

 

[Joseph_Bilodeau]

puzzleannie:

…Canon law in the Latin rite permits confirmation and first communion (which must be followed by first penance) any time after the age of reason (about 7)…

First Holy Communion must be preceded, not followed, by first Reconciliation.
CCC # 1457:

According to the Church’s command, “after having attained the age of discretion, each of the faithful is bound by an obligation faithfully to confess serious sins at least once a year.” Anyone who is aware of having committed a mortal sin must not receive Holy Communion, even if he experiences deep contrition, without having first received sacramental absolution, unless he has a grave reason for receiving Communion and there is no possibility of going to confession. Children must go to the sacrament of Penance before receiving Holy Communion for the first time.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

TJD:

I have heard that the Church is experimenting in some diocese and some parishes with confirming kids at their first Communion? I think it makes much more sense to confirm later when they can maturely consent and be expected to act like an adult in their faith.

When does your church confirm the cradle Catholics? When do you think the best time is?

My Church confirms their young it in the 7th or 8th Grade. (Confirmation every other year) I think 8th grade is best.

Accept the Holy Spirit and do good.

I’d like to see First Reconciliation about 8 or 9 Confirmation at about 10 or 11 and First Holy Communion at about 12 or 13.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

puzzleannie:

there are numerous threads on age for confirmation, a search will be very helpful. several dioceses have permission to experiment with Restoring the Original Order of the Sacraments, following the catechetical documents of the Church which urge us to pattern all sacramental prepartion on the RCIA model(. None of this discussion applies to Eastern Rites, which usually confirm and give communion with baptism.)

Canon law in the Latin rite permits confirmation and first communion (which must be followed by first penance) any time after the age of reason (about 7) or “catechetical age” up to age 18. There are all kinds of arguments supporting any age range in between.

Most of these opinions are based on emotion, pedagogical concerns or other reasons that have nothing to do with the theology of Confirmation.

Did you mean preceded in stead of "Canon law in the Latin rite permits confirmation and first communion (which must be followed by first penance) any time after the age of reason…

 

[TJD]

Originally posted by Bro Rich

I’d like to see First Reconciliation about 8 or 9 Confirmation at about 10 or 11 and First Holy Communion at about 12 or 13.

Wow, That’s quite a change. I understand Penance first. I thought Confirmation was to at the age of discretion and preferably the catechumen would have a strong preparation for the sacrament. I also thought a mature faith was expected. I would think the Eucharist would help to mature the faith in a young Catholic. I’ll ponder the idea of Confirmation before receiving the Eucharist.

I guess I need to do some home work and search for some gems in the archives regarding my inquiry. I haven’t been there yet.

Thanks & Christ’s Peace

 

[puzzleannie]

Joseph Bilodeau:

First Holy Communion must be preceded, not followed, by first Reconciliation.

you are quite right, sorry for the misinformation, senior moment

unbaptized children who have reached catechetical age and wish to enter the Catholic Church need their parents permission, and go through the RCIA process, and are baptized, confirmed and receive first communion at the Easter Vigil, there is no provision for separating the sacraments. they should be catechized on the sacrament of penance during their preparation so they may receive sometime after baptism.

I see somebody has resurrected an earlier poll on this issue, so I will repeat my own opinion after several years working in RCIA and sacramental preparation for children and adults: the theology of the sacraments, the rites for the sacraments and the catechetical documents taken together make reception of all 3 sacraments at the same time the norm, and anything else is a variation more for historical reasons than theological. Baptism and Confirmation are so closely linked that they should not be separated, even for infants. All the baptized are to be admitted to communion, so it makes no sense to delay it arbitrarily to keep kids in CCD.

 

[malcolm_davies]

In Australia we have first reconciliation at age 9 and first communion & confirmation together at age 10.

Eastern rite catholics (like the orthodox) have baptism, communion & confirmation as infants.

 

[TJD]

originally posted by puzzleannie

there are numerous threads on age for confirmation, a search will be very helpful.

I read through the post "when should we be Confirmed? started by Stetreopn. It was time well spent. The post had a poll and I was surprised that the split between age of reason, middle/junior high, high school and other was pretty even. There was a lot of good ideas as well as some fun bickering. check it out only 88 posts.

I still say junior high. for theological, practical and emotional reasons

 

[TJD]

originally posted by Malcolm_Davies:

In Australia we have first reconciliation at age 9 and first communion & confirmation together at age 10.

How many diocese are in Australia? They all agree and give the sacraments of confirmation and First Communion at age 10?

Outstanding.

Christ’s Peace

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

puzzleannie:

" the theology of the sacraments, the rites for the sacraments and the catechetical documents taken together make reception of all 3 sacraments at the same time the norm, and anything else is a variation more for historical reasons than theological. Baptism and Confirmation are so closely linked that they should not be separated, even for infants."

“All the baptized are to be admitted to communion, so it makes no sense to delay it arbitrarily to keep kids in CCD.”

Reception of all three together is the norm for those of Catechetical age older than 7-9 years old after they have been catechized.

“even for infants” Canon Law states that for Sacraments other than Baptism there must be a certain Catechesis and understanding BEFORE being admitted to the Sacrament. Infants are incapable of being catechized on the Eucharist or Confirmation.

“All the baptized are to be admitted to communion, so it makes no sense to delay it arbitrarily to keep kids in CCD.”

All the Baptized who understand what they are receiving that is.

The other issue still remains. The reason Baptism was removed from Confirmation was that priests began celebrating most of the Baptisms. The Bishop is the proper minister of Confirmation. Confirmation except in certain circumstances requires that the person go to the Bishop, or the Bishop come to them. If the Bishop Baptized all of the infants. Then I would agree. But I doubt that a Bishop could visit every parish in his diocese every month! Here that would be hundreds every weekend.

 

[puzzleannie]

Br. Rich SFO:

The other issue still remains. The reason Baptism was removed from Confirmation was that priests began celebrating most of the Baptisms. The Bishop is the proper minister of Confirmation. Confirmation except in certain circumstances requires that the person go to the Bishop, or the Bishop come to them…

quite true, however all that would need to change is granting priest the faculty to confirm, as is done for the Easter Vigil, and as is done in the Eastern rites. If deacons can be given the faculty to baptize and witness marriages, this change can also be made if the Church in its wisdom deems it appropriate, especially in mission territories.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

puzzleannie:

quite true, however all that would need to change is granting priest the faculty to confirm, as is done for the Easter Vigil, and as is done in the Eastern rites. If deacons can be given the faculty to baptize and witness marriages, this change can also be made if the Church in its wisdom deems it appropriate, especially in mission territories.

I agree that it could be done. Right now if a Pastor wishes to Confirm someone outside of the Easter Vigil (excepting an emergency) he must request and receive permission from the Bishop for each person he wishes to Confirm. This allows the Bishop to remain at least in this Sacrament attached to his people. I’m not sure that it would be good to remove this Sacramental connection to the Bishop. Much like the consecration of the oils. The oils used in infant Baptism are consecrated by the Bishop which provides a connection to the Bishop even in infant Baptism. Each priest can bless oil as needed in extraordinary situations. However eliminating the need outside of extraordinary situations to use oil consecrated by the Bishop severs this connection to the Bishop.