Conflict between prayer and free will

[justsearching]

I have been struggling with the concept of free will. If we have true free will then God does not intervene in our decisions. However, how does that work when we pray for things that would require direct intervention of somebody else’s free will? A great example I read was the following. Let’s say you are praying that a friend of yours does not go through with an abortion. If God were to actually “answer” this prayer it would require Him intervening in your friend’s free will to make the choice to not have the abortion. If your friend really has free will, and does not go through with the choice, then it seems to me it is more of coincidence that you prayed for her to change her mind and she did, then it being an actual answered prayer. This is just one example. There are many others I can think of that where people pray for essentially God to intervene in someone else’s free will. So which is it? Do we have free will and therefore it is not practical to pray about these things? Or does God sometimes overwhelm our free will in order to answer prayers? If it is the former, should we change the way we think about prayer? And focus prayer on devotion to God, and things that would not require actions on another person’s part (different from what they would choose to do)?

Feeling confused. Thanks for your thoughts! Sorry if this question has already been posted!

 

[o_mlly]

… There are many others I can think of that where people pray for essentially God to intervene in someone else’s free will. So which is it? Do we have free will and therefore it is not practical to pray about these things? Or does God sometimes overwhelm our free will in order to answer prayers? If it is the former, should we change the way we think about prayer? And focus prayer on devotion to God, and things that would not require actions on another person’s part (different from what they would choose to do)?

Feeling confused. Thanks for your thoughts! Sorry if this question has already been posted!

God does involve (not intervene) Himself in every moral decision we make. We call His involvement Actual grace. He suggests the good as preferable to the evil choice. The more one is tuned into the Voice that calls us to do good, the more likely we will hear and act on it. Prayer, one’s own or another’s prayers, affects our listening and attending to the Voice.

 

[steve93]

This is the underlying problem (along with many other unchristian things) with the clavinistic worldveiw. Were God to be controlling everything in detail directly, that would make Him the author of sin, which is impossible.

 

[ProdglArchitect]

I have been struggling with the concept of free will. If we have true free will then God does not intervene in our decisions. However, how does that work when we pray for things that would require direct intervention of somebody else’s free will? A great example I read was the following. Let’s say you are praying that a friend of yours does not go through with an abortion. If God were to actually “answer” this prayer it would require Him intervening in your friend’s free will to make the choice to not have the abortion. If your friend really has free will, and does not go through with the choice, then it seems to me it is more of coincidence that you prayed for her to change her mind and she did, then it being an actual answered prayer. This is just one example. There are many others I can think of that where people pray for essentially God to intervene in someone else’s free will. So which is it? Do we have free will and therefore it is not practical to pray about these things? Or does God sometimes overwhelm our free will in order to answer prayers? If it is the former, should we change the way we think about prayer? And focus prayer on devotion to God, and things that would not require actions on another person’s part (different from what they would choose to do)?

Feeling confused. Thanks for your thoughts! Sorry if this question has already been posted!

This is a very complex subject that deals with the differences between a “timed” existence, and a “timeless” existence.

From our perspective, we pray and then our prayers are either answered or not. This is because we can only understand things in terms of “cause and affect.”

When dealing with “cause and affect” when it comes to God, you have to approach it a little differently. God is outside of time. To Him, all of time is an ever-present NOW. He sees the past, present, and future simultaneously and eternally.

With this in mind, let’s consider our prayer. Since God has eternally seen every decision we make and every prayer we make, He is capable of having accounted for them eternally-ago.

This does not interfere with Free Will because the choice is still ours to make. God only knows about our decision because, from His perspective, we’ve already made it, are making it, and will make it in the future. That knowledge is still predicated on the choice we make, and had we chosen differently, He would know differently.

God’s influence over us also does not impede our Free Will. He can pour out as much grace onto us as He wants, but we still have to accept that grace and act according to it. Consider Adam and Eve. They were created perfect and sinless, full of God’s grace, and yet they still chose to sin. Your hypothetical situation is similar. We can pray for graces for taht person, and God can grant those graces, but the person still has to accept them.

 

[steve93]

This is the underlying problem (along with many other unchristian things) with the calvinistic worldveiw. Were God to be controlling everything in detail directly, that would make Him the author of sin, which is impossible.

Edit for spelling

 

[dmar198]

I have been struggling with the concept of free will. If we have true free will then God does not intervene in our decisions. However, how does that work when we pray for things that would require direct intervention of somebody else’s free will? A great example I read was the following. Let’s say you are praying that a friend of yours does not go through with an abortion. If God were to actually “answer” this prayer it would require Him intervening in your friend’s free will to make the choice to not have the abortion. If your friend really has free will, and does not go through with the choice, then it seems to me it is more of coincidence that you prayed for her to change her mind and she did, then it being an actual answered prayer. This is just one example. There are many others I can think of that where people pray for essentially God to intervene in someone else’s free will. So which is it? Do we have free will and therefore it is not practical to pray about these things? Or does God sometimes overwhelm our free will in order to answer prayers? If it is the former, should we change the way we think about prayer? And focus prayer on devotion to God, and things that would not require actions on another person’s part (different from what they would choose to do)?

Feeling confused. Thanks for your thoughts! Sorry if this question has already been posted!

The Church teaches that God draws people gently to Himself. If we pray for Him to help somebody not get an abortion, He won’t force them, but He will draw them gently toward not getting an abortion. It’s still up to them whether or not to get one. His grace does not violate our free will but gently proposes to us a better choice.

 

[John_Martin]

The Holy Spirit is a light shining for our souls, Grace infusing the “air” of our souls, just as light infuses the atmosphere in the daytime.
With light in the air, Grace in the soul, you can see things: your eyes see objects, and the eyes of your soul “see new things, new options” available to you (such as perhaps suddenly seeing an opportunity for something besides abortion), and that makes its way from your soul to your conscious imaginings, where you find yourself wondering what it might be like stopping into a pro-life clinic.

No force, just something new to be seen because a Light is suddenly shining.