Conflicting narratives regarding the crucifixion and resurrection accounts of Jesus

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Raafat

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Hi

The other day I was reading about the evidence for crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus.

However I was astonished to find that the stories rely heavily on the New Testament narratives as there’s virtually no other source and they are very contradictory!

For example was Jesus crucified on Passover according to Synoptic gospels or on the day before it according to the gospel of John?

Did Mary Magdalene see an angel and the risen Jesus and tell the other disciples according to the gospel of Matthew or she didn’t meet anyone and ran back to the disciples to tell them that someone stole the body?

For further reading please read this:

outreachjudaism.org

Did Jesus Rise from the Dead? What is the Evidence for the Resurrection? - Outreach Judaism

Question: Dear Rabbi Singer: I'm doing a project on missionary and counter-missionary groups. There is a very large section in my project that deals with theology. I have read your site as well as the Jews for Jesus site, and I must say that the information is both deep and extensive. I must...
outreachjudaism.org
 
Have you ever read or looked into the history of the writing of the new testament? I’m only asking so I can try to help answer your questions.
 
If there’d been no Resurrection, there’d be NO Christianity, NO Gospels
& the world would be unimaginably different.
 
Again, the Gospels were written for different audiences, hence that fact influenced the writer’s perspective. For instance, Mark’s gospel was written for the Romans, they simply wanted to bare bones facts. Matthew wrote to the Jews, hence Jewish details were important in his narrative. Luke wrote to the Greeks, those interested in all the minor details of the story. And John, to the early church. In many cases, the narratives don’t precisely line up as the various audiences were not interested in all the accompanying details to a particular incident/story.
 
Raafat said:
For example was Jesus crucified on Passover according to Synoptic gospels or on the day before it according to the gospel of John?
Click to expand...
For example was Jesus crucified on Passover according to Synoptic gospels or on the day before it according to the gospel of John?

The question of the date of the Last Supper in relation to Passover is not as clear cut as it may seem. There are passages in John’s account which raise the possibility that he may, in fact, be in full agreement with the synoptics on this point. Joachim Jeremias has looked at this question very closely (The Eucharistic Words of Jesus, pp. 44-55) and I find his arguments quite persuasive. Although John later (18:28) states clearly that “the Jews did not enter the palace [because] they wanted to be able to eat the Passover,” in his account of the Last Supper he has described―according to Jeremias―certain features that seem to indicate a Passover meal. Some examples:
  1. “And it was dark” (13:30)―An evening meal, beginning after dark, indicates a special occasion such as a wedding or circumcision, and also the Passover meal.
  2. “One of them, the disciple whom Jesus loved, was reclining next to him … Leaning back against Jesus, he asked him, …” (13:23)―They were reclining, not sitting. Also only on special occasions, including the Passover meal.
  3. “Jesus answered, ‘A person who has had a bath needs only to wash his feet’.” (13:10)―All were ritually clean.
  4. “ ‘What you are about to to do, do quickly,’ Jesus told him. … Some thought Jesus was telling him to buy what was needed for the Feast, or to give something to the poor” (13:27-29)―Nobody asked Jesus what Judas was going out to do. “Quickly” could mean, “before the shops shut.” If it was 13 Nisan, there would be no such hurry.
  5. “Jesus left with his disciples and crossed the Kidron Valley [to] an olive grove” (18:1)―Jesus does not return to Bethany. The night of Passover had to be spent in Jerusalem, which included the western slope of the Mount of Olives.
These five points (here abridged and paraphrased) are selected from a much longer list in Jeremias’ book.
 
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Raafat said:
For example was Jesus crucified on Passover according to Synoptic gospels or on the day before it according to the gospel of John?
Click to expand...
I believe Jesus died on Passover day while lambs were being slaughtered at the temple for the evening meal. This and the earthquake, tearing down of the temple curtain, are significant signs that he was the true Passover lamb. He and the Apostles had their own Passover meal the night before, either by choice or because it was the custom for people coming from Nazareth and possibly other areas. The logistics of half a million Jews having the same meal the same night seem overwhelming.
 
vallancec said:
Have you ever read or looked into the history of the writing of the new testament? I’m only asking so I can try to help answer your questions.
Click to expand...
I am aware of such topics. But I don’t see how are they relevant here.
Consider that I don’t.
 
BridgetN said:
Yeah, so what? The New Testament is a valid truthful historic document.
Click to expand...
Being a religious text, it is very very prone to being played with. So other sources are required as well.

It is not even as truthful as it seems. Much of the NT no one knows who wrote them.
 
joeybaggz said:
audiences, hence that fact influenced the writer’s perspective. For instance, Mark’s gospel was written for the Romans, they simply wanted to bare bones facts. Matthew wrote to the Jews, hence Jewish details
Click to expand...
How can this different audiedence theory explain the CONTRADICTORY details

Did Mary Magdalene meet the risen Jesus or she ran crying to the disciples that the body was stolen.
Had she met the risen Jesus, she wouldn’t say that to the disciples! But in Matthew she clearly saw him and other angels.

This is not difference in perspective.
 
BartholomewB said:
The question of the date of the Last Supper in relation to Passover is not as clear cut as it may seem. There are passages in John’s account which raise the possibility that he may, in fact, be in full agreement with the synoptics on this point. Joachim Jeremias has looked at this question very closely ( The Eucharistic Words of Jesus, pp. 44-55) and I find his arguments quite persuasive. Although John later (18:28) states clearly that “the Jews did not enter the palace [because] they wanted to be able to eat the Passover,” in his account of the Last Supper he has described―according to Jeremias―certain features that seem to indicate a Passover meal. Some examples:
  1. “And it was dark” (13:30)―An evening meal, beginning after dark, indicates a special occasion such as a wedding or circumcision, and also the Passover meal.
  2. “One of them, the disciple whom Jesus loved, was reclining next to him … Leaning back against Jesus, he asked him, …” (13:23)―They were reclining, not sitting. Also only on special occasions, including the Passover meal.
  3. “Jesus answered, ‘A person who has had a bath needs only to wash his feet’.” (13:10)―All were ritually clean.
  4. “ ‘What you are about to to do, do quickly,’ Jesus told him. … Some thought Jesus was telling him to buy what was needed for the Feast, or to give something to the poor” (13:27-29)―Nobody asked Jesus what Judas was going out to do. “Quickly” could mean, “before the shops shut.” If it was 13 Nisan, there would be no such hurry.
  5. “Jesus left with his disciples and crossed the Kidron Valley [to] an olive grove” (18:1)―Jesus does not return to Bethany. The night of Passover had to be spent in Jerusalem, which included the western slope of the Mount of Olives.
These five points (here abridged and paraphrased) are selected from a much longer list in Jeremias’ book.
Click to expand...
I see what are you trying to say here.
It makes sense but what about their hesitance to enter the palace. Why would they be afraid given they ate the Passover lamb?

Why is it written that the disciples thought that Judas was going to buy the Passover meal if it is already Eaten?
 
Dan_Defender said:
I believe Jesus died on Passover day while lambs were being slaughtered at the temple for the evening meal. This and the earthquake, tearing down of the temple curtain, are significant signs that he was the true Passover lamb. He and the Apostles had their own Passover meal the night before, either by choice or because it was the custom for people coming from Nazareth and possibly other areas. The logistics of half a million Jews having the same meal the same night seem overwhelming.
Click to expand...
Well yeah, but did he die on the Passover or the day before it?

Why does it seem overwhelming? They had to eat it the night before Passover, people today still do this and they are much more numerous.

Belief has nothing to do here, I am afraid.
 
The first century Semitic concept of history differed from our modern , Western concept .

The fact that the Church chose to include the Gospel accounts with their discrepancies in minor details when the Church could have “harmonized” them gives credence to the veracity of the Gospels .

The Church could have left out the discrepancies , but then critics would have accused the Church of acting in collusion .

The Church wasn’t bothered about minor conflicting details , but about proclaiming , "Christ is risen ! He is risen Indeed ! Alleluia !!! "
 
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It’s quite simple: if there were no resurrection there would be no Church and Christianity as a religion would not exist. Remember the apostles were defeated after the crucifixtion. It was only after their encounters with the risen Jesus that they began spreading the gospel. Historically speaking, those post-resurrection appearances are very hard to discount because the apostles were willing to die for their beliefs and in fact did die for them. You don’t do that for a lie.
 
Have you tried to recreate a narrative of something that happened 30 years ago? It is very likely some of the details will not be clear and different accounts will have different versions. It doesn’t bother me that the Gospels seem to conflict on some details.
 
I think people here have done the best to answer your questions. The new testament was first passed down as an oral history, people telling the story of what they witnessed. People are going to remember events differently and tell someone else and they are going to tell some else.
The bible was put together to tell the best account of the life of Christ as possible. Them most important thing to remember is it did happen, some backed up with scientific and historical facts.
 
Raafat said:
Hi

The other day I was reading about the evidence for crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus.

However I was astonished to find that the stories rely heavily on the New Testament narratives as there’s virtually no other source and they are very contradictory!

For example was Jesus crucified on Passover according to Synoptic gospels or on the day before it according to the gospel of John?

Did Mary Magdalene see an angel and the risen Jesus and tell the other disciples according to the gospel of Matthew or she didn’t meet anyone and ran back to the disciples to tell them that someone stole the body?

For further reading please read this:
Did Jesus Rise from the Dead? What is the Evidence for the Resurrection? | Outreach Judaism
Click to expand...
taking one of your questions

explaining the Passover discrepancy
 
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Regarding your example, Jesus Christ was crucified the day before AND during Passover?

How can it be?

Well, this year, Passover would be celebrated on Saturday to a group (sadducees), and on Friday to another group (pharisees). So you need to see the background of who wrote the Golspels.
 
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Raafat said:
Hi

The other day I was reading about the evidence for crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus.

However I was astonished to find that the stories rely heavily on the New Testament narratives as there’s virtually no other source and they are very contradictory!

For example was Jesus crucified on Passover according to Synoptic gospels or on the day before it according to the gospel of John?

Did Mary Magdalene see an angel and the risen Jesus and tell the other disciples according to the gospel of Matthew or she didn’t meet anyone and ran back to the disciples to tell them that someone stole the body?

For further reading please read this:
Did Jesus Rise from the Dead? What is the Evidence for the Resurrection? | Outreach Judaism
Click to expand...
Those Explaining away the Crucifixion ?

Answer 1

Answer 2

Answer 3
 
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