Confucian Prophecy?

[Atheling2]

I was struck by these words by the Chinese philosopher Confucius:

From the Analects of Confucius:

"It is only the man with the most perfect divine moral nature who is able to combine in himself quickness of apprehension, intelligence, insight and understanding - qualities necessary for the exercise of command; magnanimity, generosity, benignity and gentleness - qualities necessary for the exercise of patience; originality, energy, strength of character and determination - qualities necessary for the exercise of endurance; piety, noble seriousness, order and regularity - qualities necessary for the exercise of dignity; grace, method, subtlety and penetration - qualities necessary for the exercise of critical thinking.

Thus all-embracing and vast is the nature of such a man. Profound it is and inexhaustible, like a living spring of water, ever running out with life and vitality. All-embracing and vast, it is like Heaven. Profound and inexhaustible, it is like the abyss.

As soon as such a man shall make his appearance in the world, all people will reverence him. Whatever he says, all people will believe it. Whatever he does, all people will be pleased with it. Thus his fame and name will spread and fill all the civilized world, extending even to savage countries, wherever ships and carriages reach, wherever the labor and enterprise of man penetrate, wherever the heavens overshadow and the earth sustain, wherever the sun and moon shine, wherever frost and dew fall. All who have life and breath will honor and love him. Therefore we may say, “He is the equal of God”."

I thought this sounded like a prophecy of our Lord!

 

[Latias]

I was struck by these words by the Chinese philosopher Confucius:

From the Analects of Confucius:

"It is only the man with the most perfect divine moral nature who is able to combine in himself quickness of apprehension, intelligence, insight and understanding - qualities necessary for the exercise of command; magnanimity, generosity, benignity and gentleness - qualities necessary for the exercise of patience; originality, energy, strength of character and determination - qualities necessary for the exercise of endurance; piety, noble seriousness, order and regularity - qualities necessary for the exercise of dignity; grace, method, subtlety and penetration - qualities necessary for the exercise of critical thinking.

Thus all-embracing and vast is the nature of such a man. Profound it is and inexhaustible, like a living spring of water, ever running out with life and vitality. All-embracing and vast, it is like Heaven. Profound and inexhaustible, it is like the abyss.

As soon as such a man shall make his appearance in the world, all people will reverence him. Whatever he says, all people will believe it. Whatever he does, all people will be pleased with it. Thus his fame and name will spread and fill all the civilized world, extending even to savage countries, wherever ships and carriages reach, wherever the labor and enterprise of man penetrate, wherever the heavens overshadow and the earth sustain, wherever the sun and moon shine, wherever frost and dew fall. All who have life and breath will honor and love him. Therefore we may say, “He is the equal of God”."

I thought this sounded like a prophecy of our Lord!

I am saying this as a person who has a rudimentary understanding of Confucianism.

I do not see how this is a prophecy. It just illustrates the potential influence of a cultivated sage or (a lesser man) a junzi (meaning gentlemen, not quite a sage). The virtue of a sage or junzi would be quite influential and contagious that it would penetrate through barbarian cultures, in the sense that he would evoke feelings of approbation and respect, and his upright example would lead others to emulate him.

Again, it is not a prophecy, but it is not a trivial excerpt.

 

[patrick457]

This isn’t from the Analects (論語), but the Doctrine of the Mean (中庸). The author is not Confucius, but his grandson. (To be fair, the Analects was also not authored by Confucius himself; it was a collection of his sayings compiled by his disciples.)

唯天下至聖、爲能聰明睿知、足以有臨也。寬裕溫柔、足以有容也。發強剛毅、足以有執也。齊庄中正、足以有敬也。文理密察、足以有別也。
溥博淵泉、而時出之。
溥博如天、淵泉如淵。
見而民莫不敬。言而民莫不信。行而民莫不說。
是以聲名洋溢乎中國、施及蠻貊。
舟車所至、人力所通、天之所覆、地之所載、日月所照、霜露所隊。凡有血氣者、莫不尊親。
故曰、「配天」。

It is only he, possessed of all sagely qualities that can exist under heaven, who shows himself quick in apprehension, clear in discernment, of far-reaching intelligence, and all-embracing knowledge, fitted to exercise rule; magnanimous, generous, benign, and mild, fitted to exercise forbearance; impulsive, energetic, firm, and enduring, fitted to maintain a firm hold; self-adjusted, grave, never swerving from the Mean, and correct, fitted to command reverence; accomplished, distinctive, concentrative, and searching, fitted to exercise discrimination.
All-embracing is he and vast, deep and active as a fountain, sending forth in their due season his virtues.
All-embracing and vast, he is like Heaven.
Deep and active as a fountain, he is like the abyss.
He is seen, and the people all reverence him; he speaks, and the people all believe him; he acts, and the people all are pleased with him.
Therefore his fame overspreads the Middle Kingdom, and extends to all barbarous tribes.
Wherever ships and carriages reach; wherever the strength of man penetrates; wherever the heavens overshadow and the earth sustains; wherever the sun and moon shine; wherever frosts and dews fall:-- all who have blood and breath unfeignedly honor and love him. Hence it is said,-- “He is the equal of Heaven.” (Chapter 31)

As Latias said, in context, it’s not so much a prophecy as a description of the influence an ‘ultimate sage under heaven’ (天下至聖 tiānxià zhìshèng - incidentally, the title 至聖 ‘ultimate sage’ is also applied to Confucius by his followers) has: “his fame overspreads the Middle Kingdom (中國, i.e. China), and extends to all barbarous tribes. (蠻貊; ｆor the ancient Chinese, everyone who was not a part of the ‘Middle Kingdom’ was technically a ‘barbarian’.)”

 

[Mary_Estelle]

Well, Confucius was a pretty smart fellow and passed his genes on to his grandson. Charlie Chan thought so, too 'cause he was forever saying, “Confucius say” in all the old black and white Charlie Chan movies… Remember those? Ah, the age of innocence.

 

[patrick457]

Well, Confucius was a pretty smart fellow and passed his genes on to his grandson. Charlie Chan thought so, too 'cause he was forever saying, “Confucius say” in all the old black and white Charlie Chan movies… Remember those? Ah, the age of innocence.

Did you know Confucius’ family (the Kong 孔 family) has the longest recorded extant pedigree in the world today? He actually has about an estimated 3 million descendants (with a known number of about 2 million); the direct line of descent even had a mansion in Qufu (Confucius’ hometown; Confucius and many of his descendants are also buried there). (After Confucianism became a thing in China, Confucius’ descendants were repeatedly identified and honored with titles of nobility and official posts, even as the dynasties changed: the eldest male in each generation of the main line of descent was - up to 1935 - traditionally given the title Duke of Yansheng. That’s part of the reason why the main line of descent’s path was identifiable.)

Confucius was a descendant of the Shang dynasty kings (17th century BC-c. 1046 BC) through the dukes of Song; that’s just how old the lineage is.

 

[Marvin_parv]

This isn’t from the Analects (論語), but the Doctrine of the Mean (中庸). The author is not Confucius, but his grandson. (To be fair, the Analects was also not authored by Confucius himself; it was a collection of his sayings compiled by his disciples.)

唯天下至聖、爲能聰明睿知、足以有臨也。寬裕溫柔、足以有容也。發強剛毅、足以有執也。齊庄中正、足以有敬也。文理密察、足以有別也。
溥博淵泉、而時出之。
溥博如天、淵泉如淵。
見而民莫不敬。言而民莫不信。行而民莫不說。
是以聲名洋溢乎中國、施及蠻貊。
舟車所至、人力所通、天之所覆、地之所載、日月所照、霜露所隊。凡有血氣者、莫不尊親。
故曰、「配天」。

It is only he, possessed of all sagely qualities that can exist under heaven, who shows himself quick in apprehension, clear in discernment, of far-reaching intelligence, and all-embracing knowledge, fitted to exercise rule; magnanimous, generous, benign, and mild, fitted to exercise forbearance; impulsive, energetic, firm, and enduring, fitted to maintain a firm hold; self-adjusted, grave, never swerving from the Mean, and correct, fitted to command reverence; accomplished, distinctive, concentrative, and searching, fitted to exercise discrimination.
All-embracing is he and vast, deep and active as a fountain, sending forth in their due season his virtues.
All-embracing and vast, he is like Heaven.
Deep and active as a fountain, he is like the abyss.
He is seen, and the people all reverence him; he speaks, and the people all believe him; he acts, and the people all are pleased with him.
Therefore his fame overspreads the Middle Kingdom, and extends to all barbarous tribes.
Wherever ships and carriages reach; wherever the strength of man penetrates; wherever the heavens overshadow and the earth sustains; wherever the sun and moon shine; wherever frosts and dews fall:-- all who have blood and breath unfeignedly honor and love him. Hence it is said,-- “He is the equal of Heaven.” (Chapter 31)

As Latias said, in context, it’s not so much a prophecy as a description of the influence an ‘ultimate sage under heaven’ (天下至聖 tiānxià zhìshèng - incidentally, the title 至聖 ‘ultimate sage’ is also applied to Confucius by his followers) has: “his fame overspreads the Middle Kingdom (中國, i.e. China), and extends to all barbarous tribes. (蠻貊; ｆor the ancient Chinese, everyone who was not a part of the ‘Middle Kingdom’ was technically a ‘barbarian’.)”

Interesting signature MASTER

I Used a few of the precepts of Confucius once, now I don’t know, when under some demon influence if I`m coming or going ( does head~ spin on rug, know still not working )

________________________________________ : )

 

[Mary_Estelle]

Did you know Confucius’ family (the Kong 孔 family) has the longest recorded extant pedigree in the world today? He actually has about an estimated 3 million descendants (with a known number of about 2 million); the direct line of descent even had a mansion in Qufu (Confucius’ hometown; Confucius and many of his descendants are also buried there). (After Confucianism became a thing in China, Confucius’ descendants were repeatedly identified and honored with titles of nobility and official posts, even as the dynasties changed: the eldest male in each generation of the main line of descent was - up to 1935 - traditionally given the title Duke of Yansheng. That’s part of the reason why the main line of descent’s path was identifiable.)

Confucius was a descendant of the Shang dynasty kings (17th century BC-c. 1046 BC) through the dukes of Song; that’s just how old the lineage is.

I didn’t know this. It is pretty interesting. I learn new things here. Thanks for the info.

 

[thinkandmull]

I was struck by these words by the Chinese philosopher Confucius:

From the Analects of Confucius:

"It is only the man with the most perfect divine moral nature who is able to combine in himself quickness of apprehension, intelligence, insight and understanding - qualities necessary for the exercise of command; magnanimity, generosity, benignity and gentleness - qualities necessary for the exercise of patience; originality, energy, strength of character and determination - qualities necessary for the exercise of endurance; piety, noble seriousness, order and regularity - qualities necessary for the exercise of dignity; grace, method, subtlety and penetration - qualities necessary for the exercise of critical thinking.

Thus all-embracing and vast is the nature of such a man. Profound it is and inexhaustible, like a living spring of water, ever running out with life and vitality. All-embracing and vast, it is like Heaven. Profound and inexhaustible, it is like the abyss.

As soon as such a man shall make his appearance in the world, all people will reverence him. Whatever he says, all people will believe it. Whatever he does, all people will be pleased with it. Thus his fame and name will spread and fill all the civilized world, extending even to savage countries, wherever ships and carriages reach, wherever the labor and enterprise of man penetrate, wherever the heavens overshadow and the earth sustain, wherever the sun and moon shine, wherever frost and dew fall. All who have life and breath will honor and love him. Therefore we may say, “He is the equal of God”."

I thought this sounded like a prophecy of our Lord!

It says there “all people will reverence him”. Maybe Confucius would have believed the next step up from this perfect person (God, Jesus) would be too much for sinners to bare, which is what happened in Israel.