Confused — Some Questions

[JRKH]

Thanks, that helps.

I had a thought about Romans 10:9 as I cited.

It seems that to “confess” and to “believe” could be an ongoing process. We “confess” that Jesus is Lord by continuously carrying out the process of salvation in our lives, by continuously submitting to Jesus as Lord in the way that we live, etc. It is an angle I did not consider.

Bingo…the ongoing process.
Your own experience should make this clear to you since you had “confessed” and “believed” but then wandered away into error…
I’m sure that, looking back on that time of error, you are not very confident that you were “saved” during that period of your life

Here’s another issue I have, though.

My wife and I were pretty involved in the charismatic movement. I know there is a charismatic movement in the Catholic Church itself, but it is not very widespread. But the churches where I see an emphasis on the HOly Spirit, they are more charismatic.

So it comes across as though the Church is not very filled with the Holy Spirit. I do not see the gifts emphasized, such as tongues, prophecy, and so forth, which I definitely believe in and have experienced.

What do you think?

The Church is a huge banquet with many wonderful treasures - sorry for the mixed analogy… There are many avenues of holiness from the Charismatic to the mystical to the “rational”. Paul speaks clearly about different people having different gifts (can’t recall exactly where). Additionally different people are drawn by different forms of spirituality and/or their mind works in different ways.
For instance…Thomas Aquinas wrote volumes of “rational thought” that the Church has prized ever since while Teresa of Avila was undergoing the torments of dark nights and the consolations of God’s intimations to the point of actually levitating during prayer.

If you are drawn toward the Charismatic…have no fear. As you say there is a charismatic movement in the Church. So your spirit may be fed.

I don’t mean to reply yet again, but one more thing.

One of my concerns is that I really feel called to a ministry of some kind. I have a deep desire to dedicate my life entirely to God. Before I got married, I discerned becoming a priest, but I was called to married life. If I were to remain Protestant, I was considering becoming a pastor.

But if God calls me back into the Catholic Church, I"m not really sure what I’d do. I don’t know how many opportunities there are for the laity. I’m not yet old enough to become a deacon.

One thing I really want to do is to reach out to those who are in the occult, or who might be tempted into the occult. It’s such an insidious thing, and I feel strongly about the importance of staying far away from it.

But I"m just not sure what I could possibly be called to do if this happened in this way. I know this is a bit of another topic, but I"m just covering everything at once.

There are many opportunities for lay people in the Church. Some are defined “jobs” while others might simply be ministries God calls you to start.
I would suggest that you talk this over with your local pastor and possibly with someone from the Bishop’s office. If you were previously discerning the priesthood…you probably already know how to contact them.

I note in your posts a wonderful synergy…What I referred to earlier as God’s bringing good out of things. your draw to the Charismatic (and you might also look at the contemplative/mystic tradition) coupled with your desire to reach out to “new age” people could be a wonderful fit.
To help you in this discernment…I strongly suggest you get a copy of the book in my signature below.

Pray on these things…God will guide you.

Peace
James

 

[guanophore]

I also have difficulty with the belief in purgatory. When I believed in it, it always depressed me, because after I die, I do not want to spend yet more time in a place of suffering, but I want to be immediately with Jesus. I’ve heard horrors about the pain of purgatory, and that doesn’t seem to align with our assurance in Scripture, that if we believe, we will be in Heaven with the Lord. So this also really bothers me.

I actually think that’s it, but I will reply more if I have further questions. Your help is much appreciated.

Thanks and God bless,
Brandon

You don’t have to wait to be purified, Brandon. You can be purified of all your sins right now, and live a sanctified life in Christ. Purgatory separates from us all that is unholy, since nothing unclean can enter heaven. Being purged in the here and now is highly recommmended!

 

[guanophore]

 On your question concerning confession, the church does not require that you confess every sin you commit. The only required ones are mortal sins, this practice is based on John 20:23 (D-R)

“Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them: and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.”
This is how Christ intended it to be.

I would amend this statement to say that we DO need to confess ALL of our sins, but that the confession of venial sins during Mass and the general absolution is customary. This is the purpose of the confiteor.

The verse concerning forgiveness through baptism is also church teaching as faith in Christ leads one to baptism which Removes the stains of Original sin.
Romans 6:3–5 (D-R)
“3 Know you not that all we who are baptized in Christ Jesus are baptized in his death?
4 For we are buried together with him by baptism into death: that, as Christ is risen from the dead by the glory of the Father, so we also may walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection.”

Peace of Christ be with you always!

The Apostles taught that ALL sins, original and personal, are forgiven in baptism. This is why many of the ancients waited until the end of their lives to be baptized.

 

[guanophore]

Thanks, that helps.

I had a thought about Romans 10:9 as I cited.

It seems that to “confess” and to “believe” could be an ongoing process. We “confess” that Jesus is Lord by continuously carrying out the process of salvation in our lives, by continuously submitting to Jesus as Lord in the way that we live, etc. It is an angle I did not consider.

Here’s another issue I have, though.

My wife and I were pretty involved in the charismatic movement. I know there is a charismatic movement in the Catholic Church itself, but it is not very widespread. But the churches where I see an emphasis on the HOly Spirit, they are more charismatic.

So it comes across as though the Church is not very filled with the Holy Spirit. I do not see the gifts emphasized, such as tongues, prophecy, and so forth, which I definitely believe in and have experienced.

What do you think?

I have noticed this as well. The purpose of the charismatic gifts is to build up the saints for the work of the ministry. Most of those that have been involved in the Renewal are now serving in various ministries in the parish.

The gifts are not sought for their own sake, but we seek the Giver. The greatest Gift for Catholics is the Eucharist. Authentic renewal always leads the faithful to the Eucharist.

 

[guanophore]

I don't mean to reply yet again, but one more thing.

Well, I hope this is not true! If you don’t use up your posting allotment, you can’t get more!

0ne of my concerns is that I really feel called to a ministry of some kind.

Yes, we all are.

I have a deep desire to dedicate my life entirely to God. Before I got married, I discerned becoming a priest, but I was called to married life. If I were to remain Protestant, I was considering becoming a pastor.

In the Church founded by Christ, one does not just decide to "become a pastor’ of his own accord. On may feel a call to Holy Orders, but this must be confirmed by the Church, and the candidate goes through rigorous formation. Married men may enter deaconate studies, but whether they are ordained is up to the formation team and the Bishop. I recommend diaconate studies for anyone in your position, as it will help you to discern your ministry.

But if God calls me back into the Catholic Church,

I would have no doubt about this. The Holy Spirit always leads toward unity in the One Church.

I"m not really sure what I’d do. I don’t know how many opportunities there are for the laity. I’m not yet old enough to become a deacon.

OIC. well, you can begin with formation as a parish catechist, and go from there. Without a doubt, God provides where He guides. Whatever He is calling you to do, you will find it.

One thing I really want to do is to reach out to those who are in the occult, or who might be tempted into the occult. It's such an insidious thing, and I feel strongly about the importance of staying far away from it.

All the more reason you need spiritual formation.

But I"m just not sure what I could possibly be called to do if this happened in this way. I know this is a bit of another topic, but I"m just covering everything at once. :)

God will make it clear to you. All you need to do is follow your desire for service, pray, and study. If you can, find a spiritual director to assist you, and consider becoming an oblate at a monastery near you.

 

[Ignatius]

Romans 10:9 says:

Romans 10:9

because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. (ESV)

And Ephesians 2:8-9 says:

Ephesians 2:8-9

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. (ESV)

Thanks and God bless,
Brandon

Paul did indeed write those things. Paul also wrote
1Co 11:24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
1Co 11:25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
1Co 11:26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord’s death till he come.
1Co 11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
1Co 11:28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

So, Paul says that those who receive must discern that it is the body and blood of Christ, as Jesus Himself said.

You must not attempt to use the Sacred Scripture to contradict Scripture. That will lead only to falsehood and error.

 

[seeker_of_God]

Bingo…the ongoing process.
Your own experience should make this clear to you since you had “confessed” and “believed” but then wandered away into error…
I’m sure that, looking back on that time of error, you are not very confident that you were “saved” during that period of your life

The Church is a huge banquet with many wonderful treasures - sorry for the mixed analogy… There are many avenues of holiness from the Charismatic to the mystical to the “rational”. Paul speaks clearly about different people having different gifts (can’t recall exactly where). Additionally different people are drawn by different forms of spirituality and/or their mind works in different ways.
For instance…Thomas Aquinas wrote volumes of “rational thought” that the Church has prized ever since while Teresa of Avila was undergoing the torments of dark nights and the consolations of God’s intimations to the point of actually levitating during prayer.

If you are drawn toward the Charismatic…have no fear. As you say there is a charismatic movement in the Church. So your spirit may be fed.

There are many opportunities for lay people in the Church. Some are defined “jobs” while others might simply be ministries God calls you to start.
I would suggest that you talk this over with your local pastor and possibly with someone from the Bishop’s office. If you were previously discerning the priesthood…you probably already know how to contact them.

I note in your posts a wonderful synergy…What I referred to earlier as God’s bringing good out of things. your draw to the Charismatic (and you might also look at the contemplative/mystic tradition) coupled with your desire to reach out to “new age” people could be a wonderful fit.
To help you in this discernment…I strongly suggest you get a copy of the book in my signature below.

Pray on these things…God will guide you.

Peace
James

Thank you so much for your posts, and same to everyone else as well.

I have never thought of it in that way, that the charismatic movement is just one part of the Church. I am also drawn to the mystical / contemplative, so I may try to read some of the works by the mystical saints.

Thanks for the recommendation as well.

 

[JRKH]

Thank you so much for your posts, and same to everyone else as well.

I have never thought of it in that way, that the charismatic movement is just one part of the Church. I am also drawn to the mystical / contemplative, so I may try to read some of the works by the mystical saints.

Thanks for the recommendation as well.

You are welcome…The great thing about the book recommendation is that it draws from and extensively quotes a number of doctors of the Church in the mystic tradition. It’s a great overview, a wonderful reference work and introduction to the saints you will be interested in like Teresa of Avila, John of the Cross, Catherine of Sienna etc.

Peace
James