Confusion about Baptism in Holy Spirit

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My weel intentioned uncle-in-law dropped by this weekend. He is a former Catholic who attends a “spirit-filled” church. He like to speak in tongues. His message on this visit was why we need Baptism in the Holy Spirit. And how Confirmation doesn’t place the Holy Spirit in us. That speaking in tongues is the way we can be sure that we have the Holy Spirit in us.

Now I always thought we got the Holy Spirit at our Baptism? That is what the Baltimore Catechism says at least.

How would you respond to this? I understand that the Church doesn’t offically use Baptism in the Holy Spirit because of the confusion that may be caused with water Baptism. There may be a more theologically sound reason that this that I am not aware of.

What would you say to him?

Keith
 
Keith,

You might want to inform your uncle that the Catholic Church is also Spirit Filled and he is following the false teaching of his other church. The reason I say false is because he said (you stated), “That speaking in tongues is the way we can be sure that we have the Holy Spirit in us.”

I’ll explain in a language your uncle will understand (scripture only-from the protestant bible):
  1. 1 Corinthians 12: 4-10 4 Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord. 6 There are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all persons. 7 But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. 8 For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit; 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, 10 and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits**, to another various** kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues.
  2. **1 Corinthians 12:11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills. **
3.1 Corinthians 13:1 If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.
  1. **1 Corinthians 14:*4-5 ***One who speaks in a tongue edifies himself; but one who prophesies edifies the church. Now I wish that you all spoke in tongues, but even more that you would prophesy; and greater is one who prophesies than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may receive edifying.
It’s just that the Catholic Church does not bastardize or force the Gifts of the Holy Spirit. We let the Holy Spirit grant the Gifts as HE WILLS, not as we will.

The problem with your uncle’s church is that members who do not receive the gift of tongues are made to feel inferior and therefore they utter gibberish to try to fit in. They feel that they have a monopoly on the Gifts and there church is the only place you can rceive the Gifts.

YES, I am a Charismatic Catholic, I did not receive the Gift of tongues until after a received other gifts. But once it comes, it’s hard to stop.

If you want to receive a greater release of the Gifts of the Spirit, all you have to do is pray and ask for them.
 
Why did your uncle leave the Catholic Church? Not to find a spirit filled church, there were other reasons. The Catholic Charismatic movement is alive and well, healthier than ever and orthodox, try Presentation Ministries in Cincinnati (Fr. Al Lauer’s group), Franciscan University of Steubenville for links with Catholic parishes who incorporate a charismatic style of worship, or for Life in the Spirit Seminars. While it is not my preference, for those attracted to it charismatic worship is a valid option. Look for Charismatic Conferences in major cities to meet like-minded people, and to get orthodox Catholic teaching on baptism in the Spirit, the gifts etc., which differes greatly from non-Catholic Pentecostal movements, and to find out who are reliable writers and speakers.
 
First of all, in the Charismatic Movement within the Catholic Church never teaches that one has to speak in tongues…it is a charism/gift…I have it, (didn’t want it) only it is a ‘prayer tongue’…I have never had a prophecy in tongues…

Secondly, the Baptism of the Holy Spirit that he is speaking of is really a misnomer…what it amounts to, is ‘praying over’ those/intercessory prayer to be ‘more fully open’ in their lives…their hearts to the working of the Holy Spirit within them, which they have already receive at their initial Baptism.:twocents: Annunciata
 
My uncle-in-law says that the Baptism in/of the Holy Spirit is where we get teh Holy Spirit in us. Am I safe in saying that we get the Holy SPirit in us at our Baptism (water)?
 
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keith2002:
My uncle-in-law says that the Baptism in/of the Holy Spirit is where we get teh Holy Spirit in us. Am I safe in saying that we get the Holy SPirit in us at our Baptism (water)?
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Absolutely! Annunciata:)
 
Good Morning Church
The other posters here have already given the best answers to your question that can be given. I am just here to say, I agree with them.

I have my own little statement I always give non-Catholics when they start in on my being “saved” or whatever. It usually starts with them asking me some sort of loaded question.

I say, “I am a Born Again, Spirit Filled, Bible Thumpen, Hand Waven, Tongue Talken, Washed in the Blood of the Lamb, Roman Catholic”.

This always works for me and gives me a chance, quite often to let them know some of the Truths of our Faith.

You can leave the “tongue talken” part out if you are talking to a Baptist or another denomination who believe the gifts ended.

smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/17/17_1_14.gif
 
dhgray (any one for that matter):

To support his point, my uncle sites all of the instances in Acts where receiving the Holy Spirit was accompanied by tongues. This is his proof that we need to do this today.

Answers to this?

Thanks

Keith
 
Hi all,
Keith, ask your uncle to go to a Catholic Charismatic Prayer meeting with you. Check with your Parish, or the Diocesan Charismatic Renewal Center for the closest meeting…
Amen to all the other posters, expecially robertaf.!!!
In the RC we generally don’t use the term, Baptism in the Spirit because ,in fact, He is received in Baptism and in ALL the Sacraments. The term used when “we” wake up (smile) is “renewal”. There are no “gifts” of the Holy Spirit that died. It is we who closed ourselves offfrom them for various reasons. Praise God, for programs like “Life in the Spirit” and many other programs in the RC.
Keith, everytime you know your Uncle is coming say a “quick” prayer to the Holy Spirit, be kind , but stand fast. The Holy Spirit abides continually in the RC and continually in you if in the state of Grace. Speaking or praying in Tongues is a gift but not a criterian. Your witness may bring him “back”.
Mary, faithful spouse of the Holy Spirit, pray for us.
Peace on earth to men of good will.
LaVada
 
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keith2002:
dhgray (any one for that matter):

To support his point, my uncle sites all of the instances in Acts where receiving the Holy Spirit was accompanied by tongues. This is his proof that we need to do this today.

Answers to this?

Thanks

Keith
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That’s easy. Back to **1 Corinthians 12:11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills. **

However, if you uncle persists, just simply point out:

ACTS 2:
4 And they were all filled with the holy Spirit and began to speak in **different tongues (languages) as the Spirit enabled them to proclaim. **
5 now there were devout Jews from every nation under heaven staying in Jerusalem.
6 At this sound, they gathered in a large crowd, but they were confused because **each one heard them speaking in his own language. ****** Point out that if your uncle is speaking in tongues as proclaimed in Acts, then it would be a known language.

He might say, “It’s a language from the old country” or something like that.
Response: “How convient.”
OR
He might say, “It’s a language of the Spirit and only God understands.”
Response: **1 Corinthians 14:*4-5 *One who speaks in a tongue edifies himself; but one who prophesies edifies the church. **

Again, the problem is his church is trying to tell the Holy Spirit how to do his job.
 
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dhgray:
That’s easy. Back to **1 Corinthians 12:11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills. **

However, if you uncle persists, just simply point out:

ACTS 2:
4 And they were all filled with the holy Spirit and began to speak in **different tongues (languages) as the Spirit enabled them to proclaim. **
5 now there were devout Jews from every nation under heaven staying in Jerusalem.
6 At this sound, they gathered in a large crowd, but they were confused because **each one heard them speaking in his own language. **Point out that if your uncle is speaking in tongues as proclaimed in Acts, then it would be a known language.

He might say, “It’s a language from the old country” or something like that.
Response: “How convient.”
OR
He might say, “It’s a language of the Spirit and only God understands.”
Response: **1 Corinthians 14:*4-5 ***One who speaks in a tongue edifies himself; but one who prophesies edifies the church.

Again, the problem is his church is trying to tell the Holy Spirit how to do his job.
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Nice post Dh,
God Bless, Annunciata:)
 
All are really good answers.

It amazes me that folks who are in Catholic Answers a lot, still ask the same questions.
 
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