Confusion about RCIA leader

[lizds]

The RCIA program I’m in is lead by a Priest of a parish I don’t attend. I did at one point, but their parish is very modern and I really like the feel of the traditional parish I attend now. Tonight after class I stayed after for a bit to ask about wearing a brown scapular. The Priest explained it was a private devotion and such. And then begain to talk about the history of the scapular… He stated that even though the Saints have been canonized that does not mean that the miracles or apparations that involved them are true. I was completely shocked by this. I have never heard any one say this about a Saint, even a Priest for that matter.

I then asked if I could wear a blessed scapular even though I wasn’t brought into the chuch yet. He said since I was baptized I could. Then quickly ushered me out of the rectory. I have a feeling he knew I was going to ask him to bless it, but he quickly escorted me out the door before I got a chance.

I’m at a loss for words. My own beliefs about Saints and apparations completely differ from his own. I’m very interested in Medjugorje, but he laughs at it as if it’s a big joke. I don’t enjoy RCIA as much as I use to.

 

[srlucado]

That would make me uncomfortable, too, but keep in mind that a lot of the seemingly supernatural elements of the faith *can *lead a lot of people down the road of superstition.

Personally, I agree that his comment about the saints was unfortunate; we, after all, profess belief in the communion of saints. Maybe he was referring to some of the early saints, some of whose exploits seem more mythical than theological.

Put another way, the reason to believe in the Catholic faith isn’t because of Medugorje or Fatima or because some saint was credited with bi-location but because of the underlying truths.

So please try not to be too put off by the priest’s reaction; his reasoning may be rooted in a very deep theology. As for the blessing of the scapular…well, you didn’t actually ask him, and he didn’t actually say no. You’re inferring that he wasn’t interested, but that *may *not at all be the case.

Don’t give up on him…he may give you a pleasant surprise!

 

[NHInsider]

The RCIA program I’m in is lead by a Priest of a parish I don’t attend. I did at one point, but their parish is very modern and I really like the feel of the traditional parish I attend now. Tonight after class I stayed after for a bit to ask about wearing a brown scapular. The Priest explained it was a private devotion and such. And then begain to talk about the history of the scapular… He stated that even though the Saints have been canonized that does not mean that the miracles or apparations that involved them are true. I was completely shocked by this. I have never heard any one say this about a Saint, even a Priest for that matter.

[snip]

I’m at a loss for words. My own beliefs about Saints and apparations completely differ from his own. I’m very interested in Medjugorje, but he laughs at it as if it’s a big joke. I don’t enjoy RCIA as much as I use to.

I don’t know what your beliefs about Saints and apparitions are, but you should understand that the priest’s statements are true. One becomes a saint by dedicating ones life to Jesus, accepting the grace of His death and resurrection, and living according to His will. Each and every one of us is called to be a saint. The canonized saints are declared by the Church to be in Heaven, where they can intercede for us, and in addition to be models of the faith. They are not declared to have been infallible, nor are their private revelations added to the deposit of the faith or given the status of public revelation by the fact of their canonization. To the extent that private revelation strengthens an individual’s faith and directs them to true worship, it is beneficial - but it is and always will be private and non-essential.

Medjugorge is under investigation. Many faithful, orthodox Catholics doubt that it is in fact really an apparition of the Blessed Mother. Other faithful, orthodox Catholics are convinced that it is. Wait and see, and trust the Church to whom Christ gave His Authority.

Devotions and devotionals are an important part of Catholic spirituality, and often very appealing to those of us who come from very “low-church” or areligious backgrounds. That’s fine - they are blessings which can enrich our faith lives. Others are find them discomforting and superstitious - that’s unfortunate, but since they are not obligatory, being uncomfortable with them does not make one a dissident.

I expect your RCIA instructor wants you to focus on the essentials of the faith and not get distracted by the externals, which should flow from and back to the person of Jesus, and not substitute for Him.

 

[I_Fortuna]

The RCIA program I’m in is lead by a Priest of a parish I don’t attend. I did at one point, but their parish is very modern and I really like the feel of the traditional parish I attend now. Tonight after class I stayed after for a bit to ask about wearing a brown scapular. The Priest explained it was a private devotion and such. And then begain to talk about the history of the scapular… He stated that even though the Saints have been canonized that does not mean that the miracles or apparations that involved them are true. I was completely shocked by this. I have never heard any one say this about a Saint, even a Priest for that matter.

I then asked if I could wear a blessed scapular even though I wasn’t brought into the chuch yet. He said since I was baptized I could. Then quickly ushered me out of the rectory. I have a feeling he knew I was going to ask him to bless it, but he quickly escorted me out the door before I got a chance.

I’m at a loss for words. My own beliefs about Saints and apparations completely differ from his own. I’m very interested in Medjugorje, but he laughs at it as if it’s a big joke. I don’t enjoy RCIA as much as I use to.

Hi and welcome! I asked my priest about this too, just as you did. I love the saints, I have waited all my life to be a Catholic and now I feel like a kid in as candy store. There are so many wonderful saints and human beings who gave up thier lives or did great works in spite of personal suffering or loss. I love the saints and at mass we are in the communion of the saints in heaven and I adore them. Some more than others. SOme resonate within my life more than others. I have never been disappointed in the my prayers to the saints for intercession. I believe it is important to realize and verbalize that we ask in Jesus’ Name as He is the only mediator between God and man.
Our Blessed Mary is a wonderful intercessor who is closer to God than I am. She has shown me wonderful things and great mercy.

Your experience is all that is important, don’t worry about what another person says or believes. Find those friends who understand the way you think and swim in it until you get all pruney.

It is possible some priests are a little jaded, but that does not mean you have to go along with their view of saints. It is their job to bless this kind of thing. I ask every Sunday for our Father to bless something new I have acquired. Follow your heart and just remember that we do not worship the saints or request that they perform miracles for us but that they only intercede and help us to get our message to our Lord, Christ Jesus. ( I am sure you know this, but some new people may not).

Read about those saints:thumbsup: you love and continue to love them and ask for their guidance in intercession. It is one of the beautiful perks of being a Catholic. Oh, and don’t forget to refer to your catechism on many of the questions you have. I always get second opinion but I find the catechism book answers a lot.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

The RCIA program I’m in is lead by a Priest of a parish I don’t attend. I did at one point, but their parish is very modern and I really like the feel of the traditional parish I attend now. Tonight after class I stayed after for a bit to ask about wearing a brown scapular. The Priest explained it was a private devotion and such. And then begain to talk about the history of the scapular… He stated that even though the Saints have been canonized that does not mean that the miracles or apparations that involved them are true. I was completely shocked by this. I have never heard any one say this about a Saint, even a Priest for that matter.

I then asked if I could wear a blessed scapular even though I wasn’t brought into the chuch yet. He said since I was baptized I could. Then quickly ushered me out of the rectory. I have a feeling he knew I was going to ask him to bless it, but he quickly escorted me out the door before I got a chance.

I’m at a loss for words. My own beliefs about Saints and apparations completely differ from his own. I’m very interested in Medjugorje, but he laughs at it as if it’s a big joke. I don’t enjoy RCIA as much as I use to.

Medjugorje has not been approved by the Church and the past local Bishops there have warned against it. Maybe you didn’t understand what the priest was trying to say. ALL apparations are private revelations even those of Saints. Miracles also are not part of the Deposit of Faith, they are simply events that cannot be explained by ordinary means.

 

[fdesales]

Medjugorje has not been approved by the Church and the past local Bishops there have warned against it. Maybe you didn’t understand what the priest was trying to say. ALL apparations are private revelations even those of Saints. Miracles also are not part of the Deposit of Faith, they are simply events that cannot be explained by ordinary means.

I had heard that Medjugorje has been outright refuted by the Church. I’d have to go and get the sources, but I am pretty sure I read this a month or two ago that the Church is trying to shut this down as a source of false teachings…

I agree with your other statement - there are a number of “pious exaggerations” attributed to saints, but they are not the basis for determining who is a saint. One is not bound to believe any of these “miracles” as part of our deposit of faith - and many saints warn against hanging our faith upon them.

Regards

 

[kage_ar]

The Priest is correct. The Saints are good holy men and women, they are not perfect, they are not infallible, they are not God.

We are not bound to follow any private revelation. Take the most famous private devotion, the Rosary, one can be a Catholic and go to heaven having never prayed a Rosary.

 

[lizds]

I guess I might have not stated a few things clearly. I know Medjugorje is currently under investigation, since of March 17th. If it’s proven to be false I accept it, I have no problem with that what so ever. I’m just a little interested in it that is all, but I wasn’t really meaning for this thread to be about false teachings and what not.

As for the comment he had made about Saints… I was taught different from my Priest at my own parish. I guess I just suspected that they would have the same veiws on things, but I’m finding out that it isn’t the case. It just seems that the RCIA Priest is really bias on what we should or should not be believing. I think I should be able to make up my own mind on wheather or not I’m interested in wearing a scapular or if I’m interested in what might be happening in Medjugorje.

I guess I also dislike the fact that he thinks I’m clueless on these things. I went to one on one meetings with my own Priest up until RCIA started at this other parish. I switched becasue my Priest thought it would be best to be with others in a group, turns out it’s just me and one other lady. Anyway, a lot of the stuff we are going over right now is pretty much reveiw for me. I’ve been doing a lot of reading and praying about joining the Church for the last year now. Now don’t get me wrong, I do know that there is a lot more out there for me to learn and to be able to grow deeper in my Faith. I guess I’m just bothered by the fact that I feel I’m not learning anything new. Maybe I’m just becoming impateint because I’ve been wanting this for so long.

 

[puzzleannie]

. The Priest explained it was a private devotion and such. And then begain to talk about the history of the scapular… He stated that even though the Saints have been canonized that does not mean that the miracles or apparations that involved them are true. I was completely shocked by this. I have never heard any one say this about a Saint, even a Priest for that matter.
.

he is right. Saints are canonized because they were martyred or exhibited heroic virtue in their lifetime. For those that were visionaries or mystics, those circumstances are not the reason for their canonization, nor does canonization mean automatic endorsement of their visions. What is examined as part of the canonization process is their writings, which must be judged orthodox and without error. In any case such visions or messages are private revelation, no Catholic is required to believe them or act upon them. The priest is also right that the scapular and other devotionals and sacramentals are private and entirely up to the individual, none are required.

 

[srferdave]

I guess I might have not stated a few things clearly. I know Medjugorje is currently under investigation, since of March 17th. If it’s proven to be false I accept it, I have no problem with that what so ever. I’m just a little interested in it that is all, but I wasn’t really meaning for this thread to be about false teachings and what not.

As for the comment he had made about Saints… I was taught different from my Priest at my own parish. I guess I just suspected that they would have the same veiws on things, but I’m finding out that it isn’t the case. It just seems that the RCIA Priest is really bias on what we should or should not be believing. I think I should be able to make up my own mind on wheather or not I’m interested in wearing a scapular or if I’m interested in what might be happening in Medjugorje.

I guess I also dislike the fact that he thinks I’m clueless on these things. I went to one on one meetings with my own Priest up until RCIA started at this other parish. I switched becasue my Priest thought it would be best to be with others in a group, turns out it’s just me and one other lady. Anyway, a lot of the stuff we are going over right now is pretty much reveiw for me. I’ve been doing a lot of reading and praying about joining the Church for the last year now. Now don’t get me wrong, I do know that there is a lot more out there for me to learn and to be able to grow deeper in my Faith. I guess I’m just bothered by the fact that I feel I’m not learning anything new. Maybe I’m just becoming impateint because I’ve been wanting this for so long.

There is a criteria for someone to be canonized a saint. But if the CC makes such an effort to determine whether the miracles attributed to a saint cannot be explained by ordinary means and all the other investigations to see if someone is a saint then i will personally make an effort to trust the Church.

About Medjugorje, whoever said that it has been refuted by the Church is wrong. It is under investigation now. I believe that they will find the aspirations to be true. And, like you lizd, if they determine that it is false than I will accept that.

Your experience is all that is important, don’t worry about what another person says or believes. Find those friends who understand the way you think and swim in it until you get all pruney.

I personally think this advice is horrible. I don’t think one should isolate themselves to a group of people that only agree with what they agree with. I think one should find those friends who are RIGHT. Who believe in the TRUTH. Not friends that only believe in what you believe. One should be seeking for the Truth. They should pray about it. They should be honest with themselves when God reveals the Truth to them. Jesus went against the grain. He didn’t go with it and “swim in it”. I believe that if one is honest with themselves and pray they will be able to determine the Truth. And when it comes to the CC it is fairly easy to determine the Truth most of the time. For example, if you search for Vatican documents on criteria for becoming a saint you can easily discover the Truth. I just hate it when people say go with whatever you feel is right. It’s not always about feelings. God gave us a brain to use. Sorry, but this mentality gets to me.

 

[fdesales]

About Medjugorje, whoever said that it has been refuted by the Church is wrong. It is under investigation now. I believe that they will find the aspirations to be true. And, like you lizd, if they determine that it is false than I will accept that.

I stand corrected, it is under investigation. I suppose I was reading too much into the local bishop’s stance, Ratko Paric, and his orders in telling visionaries to stop making their claims. After 30 years, for the local bishop to be making such statements is telling, in my mind. I consider the apparitions that are accepted, Fatima, etc., and you don’t see this after such a long period of time.

Time will tell just how far disobedience to the Church officials is condoned by God. All the saintly visionary books I have read ALWAYS preach obedience to Church officials, and this is from the Mouth of Jesus HImself.

Regards