M
mlund
Guest
Being a native anglophone and a Catholic in the Latin Rite, I caused some unnecessary grief while in a discussion with a rather rude fellow from one of the Eastern Catholic Churches. In the heat of the moment I took exception at the use of English terminology that, traditionally, was used in the Anglosphere by Protestants to denigrate the authority of the Papacy. I also chapped some people by taking exception when he declared that the Pope has spoken in error when referring to our 24 sui juris churches as the Roman Catholic Church.
I received a few recommendations from a third party, offered with a large helping of patronizing condescension / attempt to silence discussion. Looking past the ill deeds to the merits, though, some of the advice was terrible (go talk to / learn from some Orthodox Church members) and some decent (visit the Eastern Catholicism section of the CA forums).
So beyond the context, I wanted to learn a little bit more over how to better communicate these concepts and distinctions in English. There’s been a lot of changes in status and terminology over the last few decades. A lot of terms that were used accurately at the time has been replaced by terms that foster more agreement and unity within the Catholic Church itself.
I guess the hot-button issues are terms like:
"Roman Catholic" - Used distinctly from the Latin Catholic sui juris church, once referring to all those in communion with the Supreme Pontiff in Rome in contrast to other churches that still use “Catholic” in their titles while being in a state of schism (the Orthodox Catholic Church) or heresy (the Anglican Catholic Church). It seems that this use offends some (many, all?) Eastern Catholics when Western Catholics use it to describe the body of particular churches in union with Rome and such use has fallen out of favor. So what terminology is appropriate to describe the Catholic Church distinct from other churches that call themselves Catholic?
"Eastern Christians" - I had someone throw this one around and I found it confusing and took offense to it because I assume it would be used the same was “Western Christians” are used in the anglo-sphere - lumping Protestants and those in schism in with the Catholics. Heck, I sometimes still run across Protestants that use “Christian” as a term excluding “Papists,” so that always fun. In an English language discussion across su juris churches, what is the best way to describe the 23 churches within the Catholic Church that are not part of the Latin church without running afoul of the common confusion most anglophones (coming from majority Protestant nations) have conflating those 23 churches with those churches in schism? “Eastern-Rite Catholics” seems passe. Is “Eastern Catholic” (like the title of this forum) an accurate and happy medium?
"Roman pope" - Yes, I know the origin of “Papam.” Crusader Kings made me away of the Coptic Pope of Alexandria years and years ago.
I also know the original uses of the Anglicized version in conjunction with “Roman” was not to draw a distinction between Catholics and Copts but to reject the authority of the Papacy and proclaim grave heresies a thousand years after Chalcedon. Growing up in a the Anglosphere this one is a pet peeve of mine, and I have to remind myself that a brother from one of the Eastern Catholic Churches surely wouldn’t be using it in the same context. Do members of the Eastern Catholic Churches have unique forms of address for the Holy Father other than “Bishop of Rome” - which is a term that Protestants and those in schism use to suggest a rejection of the primacy of the Holy See?
Lastly, am I correct in understanding that active attempts by members of the Latin church to get members of the other churches to abandon their traditions for the Latin church is grossly rude and has been the subject of a number of historical abuses in the past?
Thank you for your time and consideration.
I received a few recommendations from a third party, offered with a large helping of patronizing condescension / attempt to silence discussion. Looking past the ill deeds to the merits, though, some of the advice was terrible (go talk to / learn from some Orthodox Church members) and some decent (visit the Eastern Catholicism section of the CA forums).
So beyond the context, I wanted to learn a little bit more over how to better communicate these concepts and distinctions in English. There’s been a lot of changes in status and terminology over the last few decades. A lot of terms that were used accurately at the time has been replaced by terms that foster more agreement and unity within the Catholic Church itself.
I guess the hot-button issues are terms like:
"Roman Catholic" - Used distinctly from the Latin Catholic sui juris church, once referring to all those in communion with the Supreme Pontiff in Rome in contrast to other churches that still use “Catholic” in their titles while being in a state of schism (the Orthodox Catholic Church) or heresy (the Anglican Catholic Church). It seems that this use offends some (many, all?) Eastern Catholics when Western Catholics use it to describe the body of particular churches in union with Rome and such use has fallen out of favor. So what terminology is appropriate to describe the Catholic Church distinct from other churches that call themselves Catholic?
"Eastern Christians" - I had someone throw this one around and I found it confusing and took offense to it because I assume it would be used the same was “Western Christians” are used in the anglo-sphere - lumping Protestants and those in schism in with the Catholics. Heck, I sometimes still run across Protestants that use “Christian” as a term excluding “Papists,” so that always fun. In an English language discussion across su juris churches, what is the best way to describe the 23 churches within the Catholic Church that are not part of the Latin church without running afoul of the common confusion most anglophones (coming from majority Protestant nations) have conflating those 23 churches with those churches in schism? “Eastern-Rite Catholics” seems passe. Is “Eastern Catholic” (like the title of this forum) an accurate and happy medium?
"Roman pope" - Yes, I know the origin of “Papam.” Crusader Kings made me away of the Coptic Pope of Alexandria years and years ago.
I also know the original uses of the Anglicized version in conjunction with “Roman” was not to draw a distinction between Catholics and Copts but to reject the authority of the Papacy and proclaim grave heresies a thousand years after Chalcedon. Growing up in a the Anglosphere this one is a pet peeve of mine, and I have to remind myself that a brother from one of the Eastern Catholic Churches surely wouldn’t be using it in the same context. Do members of the Eastern Catholic Churches have unique forms of address for the Holy Father other than “Bishop of Rome” - which is a term that Protestants and those in schism use to suggest a rejection of the primacy of the Holy See?Lastly, am I correct in understanding that active attempts by members of the Latin church to get members of the other churches to abandon their traditions for the Latin church is grossly rude and has been the subject of a number of historical abuses in the past?
Thank you for your time and consideration.