Congregation of the Holy Cross (CSC)

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I feel I have a vocation, and am in the process of choosing the right order for me. The Congregation of the Holy Cross, through Notre Dame University, has been sending a lot of literature and I have been considering them. However, I know Fr. Richard McBrien is a CSC member, as well as a professor at Notre Dame. As a traditionalist (I attend only the EF, and if I was a priest I would definitely lean that way too), this sends up red flags- is the CSC modernist in general, or is Richard McBrien an axception? How about Notre Dame? I don’t want to go to a school where my traditional beliefs are viewed with contempt or bemusement (alreay went through that in Catholic high school).

Any thoughts?
 
I have thoughts, but will keep them to myself. Instead I will pray for you, that the Holy Spirit will guide you where He wants you to be.
Deacon Ed B
 
Since the Congregation of the Holy Cross is a missionary society it might be good to look at how they function in their apostolates. A true missionary society exists to preach the Catholic faith and bring people into the Church. Unfortunately today evangelization is often cast aside in favor of humanitarian work. When a religious order or society loses sight of it’s founding charism other problems ensue.

If you wish to be a priest and celebrate the older form of Mass you will have great difficulties in most religious orders and societies, even more so then you would in most dioceses (for example, the Jesuit superior of Italy outright forbid his priests from celebrating Mass in the extraordinary form, or even a Latin Novus Ordo! I hope Rome corrects this soon).

Now be assured that I am not in any was discouraging diocesan vocations, especially when it is the dioceses that are in need of vocations the most. However, if you wish to be a priest and celebrate the traditional Mass exclusively I would suggest entering an approved traditional society or religious order. Until more bishops (or new bishops) start supporting the EF by allowing it to be celebrated and taught in the diocesan seminaries, and setting up personal parishes for it’s use, there will be many problems and hardships for traditionalist seminarians and priests outside of actual traditionalist orders and societies.

With a group like the FSSP or ICK you would be assured of a traditional and completely orthodox seminary formation. You would be assured of being ordained in the extraordinary form and celebrating only the extraordinary form.
 
Fr. Richard McBrien is NOT, NOT, NOT a Holy Cross Priest. He is a priest in the Diocese of Hartford. He just teaches in the Theo department at the University. He is very uninfluential in the lives of the students. Notre Dame is one of the very few universities (if there are any others…not sure) that have an undergraduate seminary program…and it is thriving (they live in the dorm “Old College”). I’ve only experienced wonderful things with Holy Cross. They are a very devout group of holy men. Good Luck and God Bless!
 
JuanCarlos said:
I feel I have a vocation, and am in the process of choosing the right order for me. The Congregation of the Holy Cross, through Notre Dame University, has been sending a lot of literature and I have been considering them. However, I know Fr. Richard McBrien is a CSC member, as well as a professor at Notre Dame. As a traditionalist (I attend only the EF, and if I was a priest I would definitely lean that way too), this sends up red flags- is the CSC modernist in general, or is Richard McBrien an axception? How about Notre Dame? I don’t want to go to a school where my traditional beliefs are viewed with contempt or bemusement (alreay went through that in Catholic high school).

Any thoughts?
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Just to emphasize - McBrien is NOT a CSC priest but as mentioned, a priest from the Diocese of Hartford who is “on loan” (although, as a tenured professor it was a pretty long term loan!) He is 73, and NO he is not taken very seriously on campus where 200+ students attend the Tridentine Mass every Sunday morning at 8am.

I spent most of the day yesterday with a priest of the CSC as we went to visit a local seminary and some different parishes in the area while he was in my home town. What he shared with me he shares with anyone who will ask him - the 30 guys they have in formation at the house of formation on UND’s campus are solid, orthodox, healthy young men.

Their program has been on a rebound in the last few years like so many places where for a time their were few candidates and often the ones that used to make it in were - to be polite - dissident-leaning. That is simply not the case anymore.

If you like, stop by the blog listed in my signature and contact our contributor “Fr. J” - that’s him! - to hear more about the life and formation of CSC priests. The community practices total transparency in recruitment - you can visit the sem any time you like, you can ask him any question you want.

Some of the priests of the CSC have had an interest in the EF as well as the men in formation. It is now a right for any priest of the Latin Church to celebrate it - I believe the superiors trying to ban in to their men will be ruled to be overstepping their bounds.

My advice is to pay them a visit and see what is going on and ask some questions of the men in formation and the formators first hand. If you like, send me a private message and I will give you Father Steel’s e-mail.

The FSSP or ICK are both great and I believe will continue to experience growth, but unlike ten years ago, men with legitimate aspirations to celebrate the EF have a good deal many more options as it is now every priest’s right.
 
The CSC is a mixed bag. I do think their younger recruits are a more orthodox and obedient than the flower-child generation of the order (it’s the standard scale - the very old and very young are pretty solid, while the middle is pretty squishy). Most CSCs I know would turn up their nose at the very idea of celebrating the EF, but the priest who filled in for our EF community (within a mixed parish) when our beloved pastor got transferred was an older CSC who was a great priest.

My overall impression of them is that the general character or “average disposition” of the order is one of being mildly dissident in a fairly harmless way compared to some other orders that shall remain nameless, but not the sort of place I would ever want to be in. The priests who staff the dorms prefer the “10-4 good buddy” style of liturgical celebration, which comes with a fair amount of abuses (though these are becoming increasingly minor). They tend to read flexibility into the rules when there isn’t any, such as reading “no one, not even a priest, is to add or subtract a single word” as “so this basically says you need to give *substantial *compliance, though you’re free to make minor changes.”

If you’re a lover of the traditional Mass and want a traditional formation, I wouldn’t go with them.
 
AH - I understand your point, I have supported the FSSP for years, and agree that it is a fine group from the men I have met and the news I read.

My concern with continuing to direct men exclusively to the orders that were given permission to exclusively celebrate the EF back in the day it was the “indult” creates a sort of a cycle that precludes or prevents men from possibly acting as reformers to some other august and noble orders.

To see to it that the EF achieves the true parity it deserves in the Western Church, good men are needed who will enthusiastically support it and celebrate it.

My advice stands that the OP should take a look at the CSC a little closer, get into contact with men in formation and talk with the formators. Directing men with a love for the EF to avoid orders that don’t celebrate it exculisvely will only serve a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy.
 
ASimpleSinner said:
AH - I understand your point, I have supported the FSSP for years, and agree that it is a fine group from the men I have met and the news I read.

My concern with continuing to direct men exclusively to the orders that were given permission to exclusively celebrate the EF back in the day it was the “indult” creates a sort of a cycle that precludes or prevents men from possibly acting as reformers to some other august and noble orders.

To see to it that the EF achieves the true parity it deserves in the Western Church, good men are needed who will enthusiastically support it and celebrate it.

My advice stands that the OP should take a look at the CSC a little closer, get into contact with men in formation and talk with the formators. Directing men with a love for the EF to avoid orders that don’t celebrate it exculisvely will only serve a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy.
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Let me first say that I agree with you completely. The Church needs more priests in dioceses and religious orders that are willing to use the traditional Missal.

But if a man wishes to have a traditional and solidly orthodox seminary formation, be trained to use the traditional Rite, being ordained in that Rite and celebrate it exclusively as a priest then they should be looking into a traditional society like the FSSP or ICK or a traditional religious order. Otherwise a man with this mindset is going to face a great deal of hardhships in any other seminary.

Lets face the facts here, most seminaries in North America are firmly in the hands of the aging liberals. Now I realize this is changing, especially in those places where the bishops have personally stepped in to clean up the heterodox mess (take Archbishop Burke in La Crosse and again in St. Louis as an example). The Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei has requested that seminaries offer training for the use of the 1962 Missal, and it is expected that the upcoming clarification of document for Summorum Pontificum will do the same- a few seminaries have already done so, more are planning to do so. Some are even offering regular Tridentine Masses. But there is a long way to go before traditional seminary formation can be reconciled with the dire situation many diocesan seminaries and religious orders are in.

Outside of the traditional societies and orders one will face varying degrees of acceptance or condemnation. Some dioceses (ie. St. Louis) are more then accomodating for those clergymen who have traditional leanings. Others are not. Generally the dioceses would be more accepting then religious orders, or at least diocesan priests will have more freedom to celebrate the Tridentine Mass then their religious counterparts.

So if a traditional society or order seems out of the question, at least try to find a diocesan seminary that is known for orthodoxy, has training for the 1962 Missal, Thomistic theology, teaches Latin (maybe even Gregorian chant) and has a high number of vocations. Off the top of my head I can only think of Kenrick-Glennon Seminary in St. Louis. If you are looking for a religious order, steer clear of the missionary societies (they would have the most excuse to deny the use of the traditional Missal). I would suggest the Dominicans (American province; stay away from the Canadian Dominicans), the Oratorians, the Norbertines, maybe the Carmelites, and even maybe the Legion of Christ (though they have many other problems that need to be addressed first before I would readily reccomend them- be careful here).
 
Simple Sinner,

I too know “Fr. J” he is at Notre Dame, is very orthodox, and is a wonderful priest.

OP, I think if you would get in contact with “Fr. J” he could help you out quite a bit.

God Bless You Both,

Volodka;)
 
I don’t disagree with you…

I think we are essentially saying similar things with different emphasis.

My “thing” is that if any and every young man with a predilection to grown in holiness using the EF is directed to just a handful or orders, it will be effective in assuring a sort of “Trad Ghetto” appearing. The older orders need men to assert the right to the rite and be part of a brave and exciting new generation of reformers.

In my talks and in my friendship with a priest of the CSC who is a formator for that order, I am convinced that there is room for this there and many other places.

I am aware of the situation at many seminaries - I spent a little time in one myself. We can’t underestimate the “Catholic underground” culture that is coming out into the light more and more. The seminarians are savy - they know the drill, how to network, support each other, when to stay quiet, and when to pipe up.

It isn’t ideal, I grant this much… but the situation on the ground is the most hopeful I have seen in 20 years of tracking this… And I have every reason to believe it is getting better. When you consider who some of the latest episcopal appointments have been, and how some of the programs have been growing… I am an optimist accross the board.
 
Volodymyr_988 said:
Simple Sinner,

I too know “Fr. J” he is at Notre Dame, is very orthodox, and is a wonderful priest.

OP, I think if you would get in contact with “Fr. J” he could help you out quite a bit.

God Bless You Both,

Volodka;)
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You know Fr. J too? COOL!

Small world. He was in my neck of the woods this weekend - we spent most of Saturday hitting up some shrines and churches and having lunch with some of our co-bloggers! First time we had all met in “real time offline!”

The future is bright!
 
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