Conotations of the word "Dead" in scripture?

[YourAverageJoe]

Jesus says, let the dead bury the dead, obviosly the dead cant do anything thus they are dead… I believe Jesus was talking about non-believers or all who rejected his gospel as being the “dead”. A person being dead or alive and rejecting or has rejected Christ (God) was dead to Christ, as in spiritually dead. Damnation.

On the other hand, Lazarus was a believer. Upon his death, Jesus refused to call him dead, rather is “sleeping.” To tell the nearbyJews, especially Mary and Martha their brother was dead, would be to condenm Lazarus… So rather Jesus said Lazarus is “asleep”. As God is the God of the living, not of the dead…

Do I have this right? thoughts?

In Christ!

 

[Cachonga]

Sounds like a correct assesment. Scripture does indicate that believers are “asleep”, so this makes perfect sense.

 

[Huiou_Theou]

We don’t know whether the man’s father is physically dead yet when he makes the excuse not to obey Jesus’ command. The question is, why is the man there – and not in mourning – if his father is dead?

Jesus then gives a second command; Let the dead bury their dead – calling to mind the consequences of disobedience to God’s call. Jonas in the fish (guts) is the premier sign of this, for Jonas died when he ran away from God (Though this isn’t obvious in the English translations). I think your idea fits with that; for the idea of death is twofold – spriritual death lead to physical death by Adam. Adam was told he would die to death.

It might seem redundant to say it twice; but death has an alternate meaning – for unless a grain of wheat fall into the ground and die it remains but a single grain. The sense, then, of Jesus’ statement can be two fold – the first is what you have stated, the second is that those who have changed (died) are to cause the same to occur in others – albeit in preaching the good news and planting the seed.

I think it fun to imagine what must have gone through the man’s mind when he heard Jesus’ statement.

 

[MarcoPolo]

Matthew 8:22 But Jesus said to him: Follow me, and let the dead bury their dead.This is a useful verse when encountering Protestants who are opposed to prayer to the saints by citing with a fundamentalist interpretation:Ecclesiastes 9:5 but the dead know nothingYou can ask: "So Scripture says the dead know nothing, but they can bury each other…

 

[Cachonga]

MarcoPolo:

Matthew 8:22 But Jesus said to him: Follow me, and let the dead bury their dead.
This is a useful verse when encountering Protestants who are opposed to prayer to the saints by citing with a fundamentalist interpretation:
Ecclesiastes 9:5 but the dead know nothing
You can ask: "So Scripture says the dead know nothing, but they can bury each other…

It’s a valid arguement as long as you don’t care about context. In Matt 8:22, Jesus is talking about the spiritually dead burying those who have died physically, while Ecc 9:5 refers to those who are physically dead. I am not going to go into prayers to the saints, as that would be going beyond the topic of this thread, but I do encourage you to consider the context in which scripture is used.

 

[MarcoPolo]

It’s a valid arguement as long as you don’t care about context. In Matt 8:22, Jesus is talking about the spiritually dead burying those who have died physically, while Ecc 9:5 refers to those who are physically dead. I am not going to go into prayers to the saints, as that would be going beyond the topic of this thread, but I do encourage you to consider the context in which scripture is used.

Of course Ecc 9:5 is a lamentation and if it were to be read literally, the very next line says that the dead are forgotten, which we know isn’t true. Indeed, just using context alone should dispel any use of Ecc 9:5 as anti-prayer to saints. But if a Fundamentalist uses the same exegesis on Ecc 9:5 on Matt 8:22, he will encounter a conflict in Scripture, irreconcilable by way of Fundamentalist interpretation. That’s all I’m saying.

 

[Cachonga]

MarcoPolo - I will agree that Ecc 9:5 is not a good arguement against prayers to Saints (the same is true for Matt 8:22). Since this topic is not on prayers to Saints, I will not go further in that direction.

 

[nannyma]

We don’t know whether the man’s father is physically dead yet when he makes the excuse not to obey Jesus’ command. The question is, why is the man there – and not in mourning – if his father is dead?

Jesus then gives a second command; Let the dead bury their dead – calling to mind the consequences of disobedience to God’s call. Jonas in the fish (guts) is the premier sign of this, for Jonas died when he ran away from God (Though this isn’t obvious in the English translations). I think your idea fits with that; for the idea of death is twofold – spriritual death lead to physical death by Adam. Adam was told he would die to death.

It might seem redundant to say it twice; but death has an alternate meaning – for unless a grain of wheat fall into the ground and die it remains but a single grain. The sense, then, of Jesus’ statement can be two fold – the first is what you have stated, the second is that those who have changed (died) are to cause the same to occur in others – albeit in preaching the good news and planting the seed.

I think it fun to imagine what must have gone through the man’s mind when he heard Jesus’ statement./QUOTE

Huiou Theou,I agree this man was telling Jesus:"Let me finish My work,My agenda first then I will follow you. Jesus would have none of this, you don’t tell the Lord: "Wait Lord I’ll be with You in a minute"When Jesus calls it is His agenda all else at that juncture is Dead, when the Lord calls all else ceases,in Him is our life, we must follow Him,God Bess,nannyma