Consciousness is simple, primary and irreducible

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  1. Assume that consciousness is not simple
  2. This means that consciousness is made of some parts
  3. The act experience is unitary
  4. This means that we cannot assign the experience to any of the parts since otherwise existence of other parts become unnecessary
  5. In another hand the whole, sum of parts, gets its essence from parts since it does not have any separate essence
  6. From (3) and (5) we can deduce that the whole cannot experience either since it doesn’t have any separate essence
  7. (5) and (6) means that (2) is wrong
  8. This means that (1) is wrong
  9. Hence consciousness is simple.
One can then conclude that consciousness is irreducible and primary.
 
Bahman said:
  1. Assume that consciousness is not simple
  2. This means that consciousness is made of some parts
  3. The act experience is unitary
  4. This means that we cannot assign the experience to any of the parts since otherwise existence of other parts become unnecessary
  5. In another hand the whole, sum of parts, gets its essence from parts since it does not have any separate essence
  6. From (3) and (5) we can deduce that the whole cannot experience either since it doesn’t have any separate essence
  7. (5) and (6) means that (2) is wrong
  8. This means that (1) is wrong
  9. Hence consciousness is simple.
One can then conclude that consciousness is irreducible and primary.
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No, we cannot conclude this. This conclusion is based on circular and question begging reasoning and questionable premises.
 
davidv said:
No, we cannot conclude this. This conclusion is based on circular and question begging reasoning and questionable premises.
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Well, what is wrong with the premises and conclusion? I heard that before.
 
Bahman said:
Well, what is wrong with the premises and conclusion? I heard that before.
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Premise 3 is questionable. With no other logical problems that argument is unsound.
Premise 4 is too large a logical leap from premise 3 (non-sequitur). Argument therefore is invalid.
Enough said - Conclusion is not trustworthy.
 
davidv said:
Premise 3 is questionable. With no other logical problems that argument is unsound.
Premise 4 is too large a logical leap from premise 3 (non-sequitur). Argument therefore is invalid.
Enough said - Conclusion is not trustworthy.
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How many things do you experience when you focus on a subject matter?
 
Bahman said:
How many things do you experience when you focus on a subject matter?
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:confused:

Please address the error in your argument as I pointed on in my previous post.

Your post above is a red herring. (That is - it is faulty logic, unreasonable)
 
davidv said:
:confused:

Please address the error in your argument as I pointed on in my previous post.

Your post above is a red herring. (That is - it is faulty logic, unreasonable)
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You questioned (3). I want to prove that (3) is right based on clear fact. Again, how many things do you experience when you focus on a subject matter? One or more?
 
Bahman said:
You questioned (3). I want to prove that (3) is right based on clear fact. Again, how many things do you experience when you focus on a subject matter? One or more?
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Then prove it? What are the clear facts?
 
Bahman said:
Asking me to prove that experience is unitary is like asking Thomas to prove causality!
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So? Your OP has been shown to invoke invalid logic.

I asked for the facts that supported your claim. No facts were supplied. The conclusion in the OP is not supported by reason nor facts. It is unjustified wishful thinking.
 
davidv said:
So? Your OP has been shown to invoke invalid logic.

I asked for the facts that supported your claim. No facts were supplied. The conclusion in the OP is not supported by reason nor facts. It is unjustified wishful thinking.
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Premises by definition is a phrase well accepted by community. What you mean invalid logic? Experience is unitary? Causality is true?.. You don’t need to prove a premise. You just need to look outside.
 
Bahman said:
Premises by definition is a phrase well accepted by community. What you mean invalid logic? Experience is unitary? Causality is true?.. You don’t need to prove a premise. You just need to look outside.
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No response - This a sign of unreasonableness.
 
Bahman said:
Is causality true?
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From the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

II. “BODY AND SOUL BUT TRULY ONE”

362 The human person, created in the image of God, is a being at once corporeal and spiritual. the biblical account expresses this reality in symbolic language when it affirms that "then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being."229 Man, whole and entire, is therefore willed by God.

363 In Sacred Scripture the term “soul” often refers to human life or the entire human person.230 But “soul” also refers to the innermost aspect of man, that which is of greatest value in him,231 that by which he is most especially in God’s image: “soul” signifies the spiritual principle in man.

364 The human body shares in the dignity of “the image of God”: it is a human body precisely because it is animated by a spiritual soul, and it is the whole human person that is intended to become, in the body of Christ, a temple of the Spirit:232

Man, though made of body and soul, is a unity. Through his very bodily condition he sums up in himself the elements of the material world. Through him they are thus brought to their highest perfection and can raise their voice in praise freely given to the Creator. For this reason man may not despise his bodily life. Rather he is obliged to regard his body as good and to hold it in honour since God has created it and will raise it up on the last day 233

365 The unity of soul and body is so profound that one has to consider the soul to be the “form” of the body:234 i.e., it is because of its spiritual soul that the body made of matter becomes a living, human body; spirit and matter, in man, are not two natures united, but rather their union forms a single nature.

366 The Church teaches that every spiritual soul is created immediately by God - it is not “produced” by the parents - and also that it is immortal: it does not perish when it separates from the body at death, and it will be reunited with the body at the final Resurrection.235

So from our perspective it is the human soul which is primary. And it is created immediately by God. And therefore causality is true.

Linus2nd
 
Linusthe2nd said:
From the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

II. “BODY AND SOUL BUT TRULY ONE”

362 The human person, created in the image of God, is a being at once corporeal and spiritual. the biblical account expresses this reality in symbolic language when it affirms that "then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being."229 Man, whole and entire, is therefore willed by God.

363 In Sacred Scripture the term “soul” often refers to human life or the entire human person.230 But “soul” also refers to the innermost aspect of man, that which is of greatest value in him,231 that by which he is most especially in God’s image: “soul” signifies the spiritual principle in man.

364 The human body shares in the dignity of “the image of God”: it is a human body precisely because it is animated by a spiritual soul, and it is the whole human person that is intended to become, in the body of Christ, a temple of the Spirit:232

Man, though made of body and soul, is a unity. Through his very bodily condition he sums up in himself the elements of the material world. Through him they are thus brought to their highest perfection and can raise their voice in praise freely given to the Creator. For this reason man may not despise his bodily life. Rather he is obliged to regard his body as good and to hold it in honour since God has created it and will raise it up on the last day 233

365 The unity of soul and body is so profound that one has to consider the soul to be the “form” of the body:234 i.e., it is because of its spiritual soul that the body made of matter becomes a living, human body; spirit and matter, in man, are not two natures united, but rather their union forms a single nature.

366 The Church teaches that every spiritual soul is created immediately by God - it is not “produced” by the parents - and also that it is immortal: it does not perish when it separates from the body at death, and it will be reunited with the body at the final Resurrection.235

So from our perspective it is the human soul which is primary. And it is created immediately by God. And therefore causality is true.

Linus2nd
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The objections are given here. Thanks for bringing the subject up. 😃
 
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