Consecration of the world to Mary

[johnthebaptist2]

I don’t know how the thread I opened to got in to discussing consecrating to Russia.

But honestly, the fact that it was consecrated is clear to see if you look at Russia today. It has abandoned communism, it has already banned Gay propaganda, most politicians listen to the Orthodox Patriarchs, the Orthodox are in talks with the Vatican which more or less are progressing positively.

What on earth more can you ask for? I think its really sufficient to conclude that Russia is not the one spreading error like Our Lady said now. It is the North American and European parts of the world that have taken to doing that now. So hopefully this consecration (or entrust) of the world will put an end to that too.

All I can say to your reply,is that it hasn,t been done like Our lady wants it to be,and I will stay with that feeling,tell I feel its been done, the right way. God Bless my friend…

 

[larsont7]

Pope Pius XII already did this. Pope John Paul II did this also.

Well, I guess it depends on if you believe it was done the way Our Lady intended. Like I said, I’m not saying they did or didn’t, I’m just saying I’m in the unsure camp.

Here are some snippets from a site talking about the different consecrations. The whole article can be found here: fatima.org/essentials/opposed/cvrup3.asp

In October of 1942, with World War II at its height, Pope Pius XII performed a consecration of the world to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. He made no mention of Russia, nor did any of the world’s bishops participate in the ceremony. The following spring, as the war continued, Our Lord told Sr. Lucia that world peace would not result from the Pope’s consecration, but the war would be shortened.

In mid-1952, with the Korean War raging, Pope Pius XII performed another consecration. In this case, he specifically mentioned Russia, but did not ask any of the world’s Catholic bishops to join him in the ceremony. Without their participation, the consecration still failed to satisfy Our Lady’s request.

While still recovering from wounds inflicted in a failed assassination attempt, Pope John Paul II performed another consecration to the Immaculate Heart in June of 1981. However, the official wording referred to the world, without mentioning Russia specifically, and all the world’s bishops were not asked to participate. This consecration thus failed once again to satisfy Our Lady’s request, even though the Pope credited Our Lady of Fatima with saving him from the assassin’s attack.

A year later, in May of 1982, the Vatican newspaper L’Osservatore Romano published an article about Sr. Lucia by Father Umberto Maria Pasquale, a Salesian priest who had known her since 1939. Fr. Pasquale reported that Sr. Lucia told him emphatically that Our Lady had never asked for the consecration of the world, but only of Russia. He also published a photographic reproduction of a handwritten note to him from Sr. Lucia confirming this point.

The day after this article appeared, Pope John Paul II visited Fatima, where he again consecrated the world to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. A few days later, in an article in L’Osservatore Romano, the Pope explained why he had failed to mention Russia specifically, saying he had “tried to do everything possible in the concrete circumstances.” This was widely interpreted to mean that he could not violate the terms of the Vatican’s continuing policy of appeasing Russia.

Two years later, this evasive approach was taken again when the Holy Father once more consecrated the world to the Immaculate Heart of Mary in a ceremony before 250,000 people in Rome in March of 1984. But this time, the Pope made his position clearer. In a departure from his prepared text, he asked Our Lady of Fatima to “enlighten especially the peoples of which You Yourself are awaiting our consecration and confiding.” The Pope thus publicly acknowledged that the consecration requested by Our Lady had still not been performed. These words were included in an official report of the event in L’Osservatore Romano on March 26, 1984. A similar report appeared the next day in the Italian bishops’ newspaper Avvenire, describing the Pope praying in St. Peter’s several hours after the consecration ceremony, asking Our Lady to bless “those peoples for whom You Yourself are awaiting our act of consecration and entrusting.”

 

[johnthebaptist2]

Well, I guess it depends on if you believe it was done the way Our Lady intended. Like I said, I’m not saying they did or didn’t, I’m just saying I’m in the unsure camp.

Here are some snippets from a site talking about the different consecrations. The whole article can be found here: fatima.org/essentials/opposed/cvrup3.asp

I read what you wrote,and I know that Pope Paul John II, consecrated the whole world to Our lady in 1984,but it wasn,t done the way the Pope was suppose too,as ask by Our Lady to the children of Fatima,Read articles on Lucy the third Child of Fatima,when Our lady spoke to her about the way Consecration was supposed to be done.May Our Lady help you too see,that it hasn,t been done the right way. God Bless you child of God.

 

[Filioque]

Well before I’m attacked, I do believe our Lady appeared to the seers at Fatima. I do believe as the Church has found that the message of Fatima is worthy for us to believe, but not a part of the Deposit of Faith.

The messages given to Saints and others (I pray that the Fatima seers will be one day canonized, I think they are worthy of it.) not being a part of the Deposit of Faith, or a Public Revelation are left to the Church to interpret and decide on. Our Lady is the most faithful of all Creation, and submits herself and her will to our Lord, who entrusted the Church to Peter and his successors. She does not tell the Pope what to do or lay down conditions that they must adhere to. Rather Her instructive messages follow the very themes of Her life. Pray and submit oneself to penance and service to God, both directly through our Moral actions, and indirectly through remaining obedient to our Lawful religious Superiors.

Yes the Message of Fatima included a request from our Lady to consecrate Russia to Her Immaculate Heart. There are those who add that the message included instructions to have all the bishops of the world consecrate the world at the same time as the Pope. But what those who make all things hinge on this many times forget is it is up to the Pope, as the Vicar of Christ to decide if the request is one that needs to be acted upon, when and how. The Pope also is the one person who can decide if it is fulfilled.

While I think Fr. G. and his Fatima group are sincere in their belief that it has not come to pass. My personal feeling is that since they feel our Lady’s request has been ignored they can admonish the Holy Father, and the Church, that it is a valid excuse for not adhering to their lawful superiors, and stop attacks at anyone they don’t see eye to eye with. (again my personal opinon after discussions with Fr. G and some of his followers.) Add to this the alleged persecution of the group, by lawful authorities telling them to curtail the rhetoric, and Fr. G to submit to the local Ordinary, rather than set up shop where he wills, and you have a complex group of issues that our Lady would never in Her humility and obedience to Her Son our Lord approve.

We can if we feel the request has not been replied to by the Pope (and all the bishops of the world if that is your take on it) storm heaven with prayers that it happens, and even communicate this to our Local Ordinary and the Pope, but we must also remember that it is the Magesterium who decides what, when and how a consecration did or will take place, and not our own determination.

 

[Lormar]

Well before I’m attacked, I do believe our Lady appeared to the seers at Fatima. I do believe as the Church has found that the message of Fatima is worthy for us to believe, but not a part of the Deposit of Faith.

The messages given to Saints and others (I pray that the Fatima seers will be one day canonized, I think they are worthy of it.) not being a part of the Deposit of Faith, or a Public Revelation are left to the Church to interpret and decide on. Our Lady is the most faithful of all Creation, and submits herself and her will to our Lord, who entrusted the Church to Peter and his successors. She does not tell the Pope what to do or lay down conditions that they must adhere to. Rather Her instructive messages follow the very themes of Her life. Pray and submit oneself to penance and service to God, both directly through our Moral actions, and indirectly through remaining obedient to our Lawful religious Superiors.

Yes the Message of Fatima included a request from our Lady to consecrate Russia to Her Immaculate Heart. There are those who add that the message included instructions to have all the bishops of the world consecrate the world at the same time as the Pope. But what those who make all things hinge on this many times forget is it is up to the Pope, as the Vicar of Christ to decide if the request is one that needs to be acted upon, when and how. The Pope also is the one person who can decide if it is fulfilled.

While I think Fr. G. and his Fatima group are sincere in their belief that it has not come to pass. My personal feeling is that since they feel our Lady’s request has been ignored they can admonish the Holy Father, and the Church, that it is a valid excuse for not adhering to their lawful superiors, and stop attacks at anyone they don’t see eye to eye with. (again my personal opinon after discussions with Fr. G and some of his followers.) Add to this the alleged persecution of the group, by lawful authorities telling them to curtail the rhetoric, and Fr. G to submit to the local Ordinary, rather than set up shop where he wills, and you have a complex group of issues that our Lady would never in Her humility and obedience to Her Son our Lord approve.

We can if we feel the request has not been replied to by the Pope (and all the bishops of the world if that is your take on it) storm heaven with prayers that it happens, and even communicate this to our Local Ordinary and the Pope, but we must also remember that it is the Magesterium who decides what, when and how a consecration did or will take place, and not our own determination.

I am always grateful when others are able to put into words what I would like to say. And say it politely too!

 

[johnthebaptist2]

Well before I’m attacked, I do believe our Lady appeared to the seers at Fatima. I do believe as the Church has found that the message of Fatima is worthy for us to believe, but not a part of the Deposit of Faith.

The messages given to Saints and others (I pray that the Fatima seers will be one day canonized, I think they are worthy of it.) not being a part of the Deposit of Faith, or a Public Revelation are left to the Church to interpret and decide on. Our Lady is the most faithful of all Creation, and submits herself and her will to our Lord, who entrusted the Church to Peter and his successors. She does not tell the Pope what to do or lay down conditions that they must adhere to. Rather Her instructive messages follow the very themes of Her life. Pray and submit oneself to penance and service to God, both directly through our Moral actions, and indirectly through remaining obedient to our Lawful religious Superiors.

Yes the Message of Fatima included a request from our Lady to consecrate Russia to Her Immaculate Heart. There are those who add that the message included instructions to have all the bishops of the world consecrate the world at the same time as the Pope. But what those who make all things hinge on this many times forget is it is up to the Pope, as the Vicar of Christ to decide if the request is one that needs to be acted upon, when and how. The Pope also is the one person who can decide if it is fulfilled.

While I think Fr. G. and his Fatima group are sincere in their belief that it has not come to pass. My personal feeling is that since they feel our Lady’s request has been ignored they can admonish the Holy Father, and the Church, that it is a valid excuse for not adhering to their lawful superiors, and stop attacks at anyone they don’t see eye to eye with. (again my personal opinon after discussions with Fr. G and some of his followers.) Add to this the alleged persecution of the group, by lawful authorities telling them to curtail the rhetoric, and Fr. G to submit to the local Ordinary, rather than set up shop where he wills, and you have a complex group of issues that our Lady would never in Her humility and obedience to Her Son our Lord approve.

We can if we feel the request has not been replied to by the Pope (and all the bishops of the world if that is your take on it) storm heaven with prayers that it happens, and even communicate this to our Local Ordinary and the Pope, but we must also remember that it is the Magesterium who decides what, when and how a consecration did or will take place, and not our own determination.

Iknow that its up too the Pope,to decide,but since 1962,when Lucy gave the Popes from that time to the present the reqest of of Our Lady,no Pope hsa had the bravier to stand up and say along with the Bishops,have a Mass we are concerating Russia to the Immuculate Heart of Mary,all we can do is pray that some day it will take place.Or like Our Lady said,that the Pope would suffer much,greater wars will arubt, and annilation of of parts of the world will be wipe away,so lets work together,PRAY PRAY PRAY.

 

[choliks]

How come we agree with “it’s up to the Pope to decide,” but can’t agree with the Pope when they said they did?

 

[johnthebaptist2]

How come we agree with “it’s up to the Pope to decide,” but can’t agree with the Pope when they said they did?

The reason is, because,It hasn,t been done the way that Our Lady ask it too be done,and this was told to Lucy the third child of Fatima,by Our Lady
Plus, the Pope concercated the world to Our lady,not Russia,like Our Lady ask the Pope and the Bishops to dur lady told Lucy that she wishes for the Pope and the bishops, on the same day,same time to Consecrated Russia to Her Immaculate Heart ,not he whole world,their is many paper-books or books that mention how Our Lady told Lucy,how she wish it to be done. May Our Lady help you see,that it hasn,t been done as she ask.

 

[choliks]

The reason is, because,It hasn,t been done the way that Our Lady ask it too be done,and this was told to Lucy the third child of Fatima,by Our Lady
Plus, the Pope concercated the world to Our lady,not Russia,like Our Lady ask the Pope and the Bishops to dur lady told Lucy that she wishes for the Pope and the bishops, on the same day,same time to Consecrated Russia to Her Immaculate Heart ,not he whole world,their is many paper-books or books that mention how Our Lady told Lucy,how she wish it to be done. May Our Lady help you see,that it hasn,t been done as she ask.

You see here’s the disconnect:

1. Who are we to say that it has not happened? What authority do we exercise to be above the pope?
2. If Sr. Lucy herslef already said that Our Lady’s request was already satisfied, why do we keep on insisting that it has not?

 

[johnthebaptist2]

You see here’s the disconnect:

1. Who are we to say that it has not happened? What authority do we exercise to be above the pope?
2. If Sr. Lucy herslef already said that Our Lady’s request was already satisfied, why do we keep on insisting that it has not?

First of all,what I,am saying is, that the Pope must stand up and not be afraid to do what Our Lady ask the Pope to do Consecrated Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary,and this has been ask since 1962 to the Popes from that Yr to the present,by Lucia The third child at Fatima,sorry I spell her name wrong before.
Telling them how are Lady wanted to be done.Now they just had a conference on Sept 2013 with many priest and people saying it hasn,t been done yet. It was labeled Special Report Fatima;" The Path to Peace ",so we must pray that the Pope well do it the way it is supposed be done. If you can tell me were to look up were Lucia said she is satisfied, than I,ll leave it be,but if you can,t, than I say it hasn,t, been done. God Bless

 

[LightBound]

First of all,what I,am saying is, that the Pope must stand up and not be afraid to do what Our Lady ask the Pope to do Consecrated Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary,and this has been ask since 1962 to the Popes from that Yr to the present,by Lucia The third child at Fatima,sorry I spell her name wrong before.
Telling them how are Lady wanted to be done.Now they just had a conference on Sept 2013 with many priest and people saying it hasn,t been done yet. It was labeled Special Report Fatima;" The Path to Peace ",so we must pray that the Pope well do it the way it is supposed be done. If you can tell me were to look up were Lucia said she is satisfied, than I,ll leave it be,but if you can,t, than I say it hasn,t, been done. God Bless

ewtn.com/expert/answers/Fatima1984.htm

 

[R_C]

How come we agree with “it’s up to the Pope to decide,” but can’t agree with the Pope when they said they did?

I do not think any Pope actually stated that they did.

The only official statement on the matter seems to be this, by the then-Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith:

Sister Lucia personally confirmed that this solemn and universal act of consecration corresponded to what Our Lady wished. Hence any further discussion or request is without basis.

I think this a causa finita, regardless of how we perceive it.

 

[johnthebaptist2]

ewtn.com/expert/answers/Fatima1984.htm

Ok I read what you want for me too see,and if it was done in 1984,by Pope,than why are they saying it hasn,t been done yet,someone said that the Pope John Paul II, consecrated the world with all the Bishop,then, If it was done,I,am not going to say it hasn,t,Our Lady knows,. May God have Mercy on those who don,t believe it was done.

 

[Godric2]

It seems so strange that there is ambiguity around this.

Shrine of Our Lady of the Crag