Consumed by depression and desire to end marriage...help!

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Tim19 said:
…How can I be forthcoming with her about my issues when they’re all personality based? They’re not going to change. How do I tell her she has no common sense, is lazy, and self-centered?..
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How does she tell you that you are passive-aggressive, judgmental, and self-centered? How did that go for her? Not so well, did it? Let me guess: devastated is not exactly the word to describe how you felt at having those accusations thrown at you, was it? Regardless of how you’d feel, though, if you say what you say you’ve let yourself think, her reaction is going to be as much infuriated as devastated. If you have that in writing anywhere, destroy it.

You knew what you were getting into and you got yourself into it, so let’s not with the “I couldn’t disappoint everyone” thing. Maybe, but then again maybe not. Start with the premise that you are bound to hold yourself to the promises of marriage, then. You said you were in for better or worse…well, you do have both. This is the attempt at marriage that you chose. Time to get with it.

I would highly recommend “The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work” by John Gottman and Nan Silver. You could also try “Why Marriages Succeed or Fail: And How You Can Make Yours Last”. I would even more highly recommend that you get yourself a counselor.

You’re going to need to learn to talk, but before you start opening your mouth you need to learn how to talk in a non-destructive manner. Maybe that will include some honesty that will be difficult, but please learn how to communicate in a way that will minimize the emotional bloodshed on both sides. The Gottman books are based on clinical research on what sorts of communication techniques build up or destroy marriages. You would do well to learn those before you go bull-dozing into a life of self-expression. You do need to learn to say what you feel, but if you just let all those years of pent-up frustration simply start flying out, you’re going to do damage that you will never be able to undo. Opening up to a good therapist can help you with that, and I think Dr. Gottman’s books will give you good information about how to avoid landmines that the therapist will not have time to point out until you’ve hit a few.
 
Tim19 said:
My wife seems to listen and understand a lot of the issues. The problem is, she seems to make some changes for a very short period, and then reverts to old habits.
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And what changes has your counselor asked YOU to make? It’s a 2 way street here, you know. You’re no Prince Charming yourself although your posts have a very martyred tone to them as if you are putting up with Hell itself. Did the anti-depressants help? And if not, why haven’t you asked for an increase in the dosage or a change to another type? Whatever your wife’s problems are, you took the vows and you have now made 2 children with her. You said to God that you would honor and cherish her all the way through. Keep going to counseling and try, really TRY to see that you need to make changes too. At least she is trying, which I’m not picking up from your posts.
 
Tim19 said:
My wife gets along slightly better with my parents, and they babysit our kids often. But seemingly every time they do, my wife finds something wrong with how they babysit. If my mom says something in conversation about my sister’s kids, my wife believes she is comparing her kids to ours. If you give her any advice on parenting, she gets upset. It’s like everything is a competition.

This comment in your first post was a red flag to me. Are your parents and/or sister giving your wife parenting advice? I don’t blame her for being upset, if that’s the case. And you had your aunt give you marriage counseling? Why would you think that would be a good thing for your wife? You are so focused on yourself you aren’t even trying to consider what she may be dealing with. She is the one who sounds depressed.
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So what about your wife’s issues with you? What are those, and how are they going since you’ve been in counseling?
 
I don’t really have anything to ad here I just want to throw in my support. The people on these forums are great at offering prayers, support and advice, but they certainly keep you accountable for everything.
Even from reading other people’s threads I have been challenged to think about things in different ways, ways that have helped me to try things differently, or look at things from a different perspective and even to slap some sense into me.

Sometimes it’s hard to see things from outside your own issues or you may have the thought, why should I? But trust me, looking at things from outside yourself and from the perspective that marriage is a team effort, that you both come together to become one. It’s much better that the marriage be your refuge from the world, and it is worth all the heartache and pain and difficulties to get there.

But you aren’t the only one in the marriage, it isn’t just a refuge for you. You need to participate to create the refuge for your wife and your children. It becomes the pillar of your family. Your children need it to be secure, so they can feel secure.

I know that when my husband and so were going through our rough spots, and we got the the point of asking why bother staying together, I would make some changes, but give up if I felt that I couldn’t keep up with the changes, (too much too soon?), if I wasn’t being appreciated, well if its not ever going to be good enough, why bother doing anything?

My husband would get cranky about the housework too, and I will be honest. I was lazy. I still struggle with laziness. I also work part time outside of the home. It would get to the end of the week and my husband would get cranky that the house was filthy, but he hasn’t done anything to help me during the week either.

Now, we will clean up after dinner together a couple nights a week. It takes a bit of pressure off and give us some time together, working together to accomplish the same goal.

It was very hard for me when I felt that the problems in our marriage were all my fault, and even though I was working towards a change, I had good days and bad days, but I felt that even though I was doing my best it wasn’t good enough because if I slipped, then I would get criticised about it. I needed to hear more encouragement, or even just a recognition that I was trying, and some support for bad days. I needed the refuge too.

We did have other issues that I won’t go into, but I did find that when I got over myself, and started doing things with a more open heart, just little things, and making an effort from the place of love rather than, I’ll do it so he won’t get cranky at me, his heart softened too and it became easier for me to communicate my needs.

I suffer from depression too and I need to take my medication. I know when it is my depression talking when I feel that everyone else is to blame. It stops me seeing things clearly.

Resentment can do that too. It takes a lot of strength and courage to go ok, enough is enough, I’m going to grow up, get over myself and soften my heart to make this marriage work. My spouse, and my children and I deserve to have a refuge from the world and I am going to do all I can to get it happening.

Wow, this is a bit longer than I first anticipated…I hope that there is something in there that you can find value in though. It’s hard, very hard to be able to get the courage and strength to put it all behind you and to come from a place of love and gentle heart.

You and your family will be in my prayers.
 
Personally I think your wife needs to grow up. I had no problem raising four kids and keeping the house clean. That’s her job if she stays home. I really feel for you. Tell her to straighten up and fly right. You aren’t a human sacrifice. I may get flamed but I don’t care. Too many American women have this entitlement idea that being a mom means that everything else can just be ignored. It is very important for family to have harmony. If you aren’t happy something is wrong. Stand up for yourself and insist on certain changes. Period.
 
Sorry, but I don’t feel much sympathy for the poster…sheesh, a 3 page listing of his wife’s shortcomings…things like she doesn’t wipe up the kitchen (so…get a dishrag OP and wipe the counter and table)…the daughter is cold (put a sweater on her, OP)…she tells him she loves him and calls him 5 times a day (what a terrible thing to do).

And to get on a forum and spew pages of bad stuff about your wife is just not a very manly thing to do, in my opinion. I feel sorry for the wife.
 
I think you need to go back to your assertion that you avoid confrontation. I think it’s terrible that you would even consider ending your marriage without even bothering to discuss some of these things with your wife. As many problems as you have with your wife, this is a serious issue and something that falls on you.

Perhaps your wife is paranoid and unreasonable regarding your family. I don’t know. What have you done to try and facilitate their relationship? Remember that your marriage always comes first. (And by the way, I’d probably be annoyed at getting unsolicited parenting advice from my mother in law too.) It sounds like pretty typical in-law issues.

Regarding the calls at work, you do not need to answer them all. You need to get your work done, and she should respect that- but it’s likely that she doesn’t even know she is bothering you because you haven’t told her. So you cannot blame her for annoying you if she’s not even aware of it. Answer the phone if you aren’t busy, keep it short and then say “Nice talking to you honey, but I need to get back to work now- I’ll see you when I get home”. Next time she calls you do not need to answer, and if there is some kind of emergency she will leave a message.

As for your critique of her parenting and housekeeping, what are you doing to help? You said she told you “if you don’t like the way I do something, do it yourself”- have you tried this? Sometimes you just need to set your own boundaries and get over the rest. If there are clothes lying outside the hamper, say, “I notice we have a lot of laundry- here, I’ll throw a load in”. I admit that this bothers me too, but I’m the one who does the laundry so I told my husband anything that doesn’t end up in the hamper doesn’t get washed. It sounds like your wife is really overwhelmed, and you listed a lot of things that bothered you but you didn’t mention anything you’ve tried to do to address the situation.

About her student loans- what was your arrangement before you married? Did you talk about whether one of you would stay home, and what you would do about the loans if that happened? Remember that when you married it became your issue too- stop thinking of it as “her” debt. It’s your problem now too. And if you really do feel it’s necessary that both of you are working, try to make it easier for her to look for a job! Job hunting takes a lot of time and energy (it should anyway, if you’re looking hard enough), so help out around the house. Clean up those counters and the bathroom floor, throw in some laundry, help with the dishes. Maybe arrange some time every night where you take care of things so she can have some uninterrupted time to focus.

You asked what you should do. You should be the best husband and father you can be, and stop blaming her for everything, especially if you haven’t addressed your concerns with her. Do not even think about leaving. Instead of fixating on every little thing you see wrong with her, ask yourself what you can do to help the situation. Read, as another poster suggested “The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work”- it’s such an excellent book and will open your eyes to harmful ways of communicating and how they are affecting your marriage.
 
Thank you for your replies. My eyes have definitely been opened, and I appreciate those who have taken the time to offer constructive advice. I’m sure it doesn’t seem like it by the tone of the original posts, but I don’t feel like I’m an overly selfish or self-centered person. I try to always do everything for the good of others – especially my wife and family. I’ve been living like this for almost four years now. I think if I only cared about myself I would’ve left a long time ago.

The truth is, I do my best to be the best father and husband I can be. I don’t sit around doing nothing and expect my wife to do it all. I work 50 hours a week; 60 if you include commute. I get home from work, have dinner, clean up everything, play with the kids a bit, give them baths, put them to bed, and do it all again the next day. On the weekends, I shuttle the kids around, do laundry, cook, etc. I get it, that’s the life of a parent. It may seem like it, but I don’t resent that. Sure, I sometimes miss the freedom of the old days, but what parents don’t?

I suppose I decided to post this partially as a rant. Sometimes when you feel like you don’t have a lot of people to talk to, you just need to let it out. Maybe I was just looking for a sympathetic ear or two. I wouldn’t say I necessarily got it, but maybe that’s what I needed. But the main reason I posted this is because I’m looking for opinions on how I can help the situation - both for myself, my wife, and kids.

I acknowledged that I’m not without fault. My wife’s main issues with me is that I don’t talk and always seem distant. I’m distant because I’m unhappy. Maybe I don’t have any reason to be unhappy, I don’t know. I’d like to change that, but I don’t know how. Trust me, I don’t want to be distant. I don’t like the fact that I can’t openly communicate. It also doesn’t help that the few times I’ve tried, it seems to backfire or be generally unproductive. I either get the “sorry I’m not perfect” line, the “do it yourself if you don’t like the way I do it” line, or a tearful rant about how overwhelmed she is. All of these responses make me feel guilty and angry in equal measure. The result? I clam up and it becomes even harder to communicate the next time. It’s a tough cycle.

I will look into the books and programs that you have recommended here. Thank you again for those taking the time to reply. I appreciate it.
 
And…since I scolded you…let me add that I will also be praying for you and your family!!

Remember…the only person you can change is yourself. Spend a little time before the Lord in Eucharistic Adoration if you can…it will be life changing! Good luck to you.
 
Tim19 said:
Thank you for your replies. My eyes have definitely been opened, and I appreciate those who have taken the time to offer constructive advice. I’m sure it doesn’t seem like it by the tone of the original posts, but I don’t feel like I’m an overly selfish or self-centered person. I try to always do everything for the good of others – especially my wife and family. I’ve been living like this for almost four years now. I think if I only cared about myself I would’ve left a long time ago.

The truth is, I do my best to be the best father and husband I can be. I don’t sit around doing nothing and expect my wife to do it all. I work 50 hours a week; 60 if you include commute. I get home from work, have dinner, clean up everything, play with the kids a bit, give them baths, put them to bed, and do it all again the next day. On the weekends, I shuttle the kids around, do laundry, cook, etc. I get it, that’s the life of a parent. It may seem like it, but I don’t resent that. Sure, I sometimes miss the freedom of the old days, but what parents don’t?

I suppose I decided to post this partially as a rant. Sometimes when you feel like you don’t have a lot of people to talk to, you just need to let it out. Maybe I was just looking for a sympathetic ear or two. I wouldn’t say I necessarily got it, but maybe that’s what I needed. But the main reason I posted this is because I’m looking for opinions on how I can help the situation - both for myself, my wife, and kids.

I acknowledged that I’m not without fault. My wife’s main issues with me is that I don’t talk and always seem distant. I’m distant because I’m unhappy. Maybe I don’t have any reason to be unhappy, I don’t know. I’d like to change that, but I don’t know how. Trust me, I don’t want to be distant. I don’t like the fact that I can’t openly communicate. It also doesn’t help that the few times I’ve tried, it seems to backfire or be generally unproductive. I either get the “sorry I’m not perfect” line, the “do it yourself if you don’t like the way I do it” line, or a tearful rant about how overwhelmed she is. All of these responses make me feel guilty and angry in equal measure. The result? I clam up and it becomes even harder to communicate the next time. It’s a tough cycle.

I will look into the books and programs that you have recommended here. Thank you again for those taking the time to reply. I appreciate it.
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  1. Get your medications adjusted/increased.
  2. Keep seeing your counselor.
  3. Keep doing marriage counseling.
  4. Do a searching and fearless moral inventory OF YOURSELF, not your wife. Even in this post, you have immediately switched the fault right back to her and made yourself into the victim. “I’m distant because I’m unhappy,” well, maybe that’s just the way you approach things and you are unhappy because you are telling yourself that you want out all the time. Don’t make excuses. Just take a look at your own faults and then “forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us.”
  5. Repeat 1, 2, and 3.
 
I’m not married but I saw my parents fight many times in front of my eyes. It scared me a lot, really. Every time because of their differences, differences they overcome and shortly after worked hard to comprehend and find an answer to. Remember that your wife is now a part from you, without her you are incomplete but also she has defects as everybody; your job as her husband is to, better than understand her, love her. Not meaning that you hug her all the time but love to help her grow as a person. Don’t get angry or sad, pray to love her so instead of watching her as a woman surrounded with problems you see her as a lost woman in need of help.

Think of this principles:
**Honesty- **be kind but honest to your wife offer her your help and point of view, explain your points of view and try to make her understand.
Respect- value her decisions and her opinions even though you think she is wrong. After respecting them then you can truly discuss with her of each other’s differences and reach a conclusion.
Service- Don’t leave her alone, support her in anything she does, cheer her on.
Moderation- Never lose control, try to remain calm
Inspiration- See every day as a new opportunity to help her on, inspire her to grow in soul by turning into an example for your wife.

I also understand, the family of each of my parents didn’t get along. First of all don’t take sides, sides are bad in a marriage. Try to perceive why she feels uncomfortable between your family. Maybe she thinks you love them more than her.

Do not think in divorce, when little I had one friend which father left, her mother wasn’t a perfect mom and acted in an uncommon way. Well, when she talked to me about her dad that leave them alone to built a new life I could sense a deep anger and hate growing inside her soul. I felt sad, she was painfully hurt. Why? because her mother was too and she transmitted the same anger to her child. Pray to find a clear answer, I’m sure you will.

God Bless you and your family.
 
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