Contraception: A Stumbling Block to Ending Abortion

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I was actually fairly detailed in my justification for the 81%. I’m not sure where you go the 10% number. The number was 15% for those not open to using contraception (either because of poverty, lack of education, [8%] or because of some other reason [7])

None of them (pill, condom, NFP, or risk takers), apparantly, expected to get pregnant, it seems, so I’m not sure what your point is here.

You mean the 15% group?

If you look at the study details, you will see that NFP is clearly listed as a contraceptive method. The concerns that this group have include NFP (or at least, they are not aware that NFP is an option through lack of education).

The study says most of these were had taken contraceptives before, so I classified them, at least as not being opposed to contraception, since that category is already declared above (the 15% groups). Take a look at the study. I didn’t make any assertions without quoting evidence from the study.

Here is the actual quotation on the pill and condom users:

hmmm… what about the other 11%? What was their problem with the pill?

So in a perfect, world, if everyone was using the pill properly, the abortion rate would be much lower. Agreed. But the same is also true for the statistics on NFP. If everyone used NFP as advertised and instructed, the unwanted pregnancies and abortion rates would also be as low.

The problem is that we don’t live in a perfect world. There is no sure way to avoid having children (except for sterilization) when you are having sex. And maybe that is the crux of the issue from the Catholic perspective.

And to you as well.
It wasn’t you that took your numbers to the extreme it was the one that cited your post. That said, blaming contraceptives for the 46% of abortions that occurred after not using contraceptives is a stretch. Also blaming all of the first 54% of abortions is folly because if the contraceptives were properly used the abortions wouldn’t have happened to the extent they did.

One of the problems with contraceptives in the catholic context is that they are a solution to a problem that the church can’t address. That being that sex is not thought of by most of the people in the world as being solely for procreative reasons.

Its a hurdle that the church will never jump and as a result there will be abortions that result from the church’s policy on contraceptives.

And that (I guess) is why so many catholics use contraceptives, in their minds it is better to disregard the church’s teachings on contraceptives so that the church’s teachings on abortion can be followed.

Peace
 
Women seeking abortion know what they are doing
Do they, really? If they truly did, they would not abort.
unless they are handicapped with a mental illness and are unable to make decisions for themselves.
A mental illness like “brainwashed by the secular culture”?
In that case their guardians decide for them and act upon their own best judgment.
…which is sometimes (oftentimes) misquided.
Women do not need your efforts at “enlightenment”, however benign they may be. My advice is to keep your distance
Your opinion.
and behave respectfully.
I do. You will always see me praying the rosary at a clinic. You will see me lending support to a sidewalk counselor, especially if my own experience or knowledge can come in handy.

You will never see me shouting through a megaphone (as so many others that I have seen do). You will never see me telling them they are going to hell, when their most immediate concern (and mine) is that they are at the waiting room of the abortuary.
These are not whimsical decisions they have arrived at;
True - it is not a whimsical decision they have made. How they may have arrived at that decision may not have been through the most thorough, logical thought processes, nor sufficiently clear of overriding emotions.

High emotions are not conducive to making the most optimal decisions.
your interference will not be helpful.
Again - your opinion.
A boat which capsizes at sea is unlikely to have a companion boat at the ready with a life preserver or ring. In this case, the ocean does decide. Consider a moratorium on putting others’ fires out. Prayer would be more helpful.
As I said, it’s an analogy - no parable is perfectly true to real-life. (Although there have been plenty of times that a boat capsized in a crowded marina or with a Coast Guard boat relatively nearby…)
 
going back to the original question, you can’t go far wrong if you refer to John Paul II’s "Evangelium VitaeW which takes a more comprehensive and integrated survey of all life issues; also “Humanae Vitae” indicated the implications of disregarding the fundamentals underlying the prohibition on artificial contraception.

When I give talks for SPUC, whether in small groups or to university students, I always present the links between pro-abortion thinking and other ways of falling into the culture of death.
 
I definitely, 100% agree that accepting contraceptives is a stumbling block to ending abortion and have often wondered why this is not vocalized and taught more often. I have also wondered why pro-life protestants (usually accepting of birth control but not abortion) do not see the problem with the widespread use of The Pill. I almost have to wonder how it isn’t obvious that if you’re using the pill, and you are familiar with how it works, you cannot believe in protecting life from the moment of conception. 😦
 
Actually you start off with a faulty conclusion: Contraception= Belief in a consequence free sex. Since not all people using contraceptives believe that sex is free of consequences your conclusions that follow your first faulty assumption are not necessarily true.

And if you used your logic and assumed your last two assumptions were true:
More pregnancies = More unwanted pregnancies
More unwanted pregnancies = More abortions.

Anything that preceded them and resulted in more pregnancies would lead to more abortions. We know that sex without ABC leads to more pregnancies so therefore ABC prevents abortions.

So preventing contraceptives from being used means more abortions will be performed, but more abortions is better than more contraception according to the logic used by your example.

Peace
Very good response. I did not follow the supposed logic of the earlier post either.
 
Actually you start off with a faulty conclusion: Contraception= Belief in a consequence free sex. Since not all people using contraceptives believe that sex is free of consequences your conclusions that follow your first faulty assumption are not necessarily true.

And if you used your logic and assumed your last two assumptions were true:
More pregnancies = More unwanted pregnancies
More unwanted pregnancies = More abortions.

Anything that preceded them and resulted in more pregnancies would lead to more abortions. We know that sex without ABC leads to more pregnancies so therefore ABC prevents abortions.

So preventing contraceptives from being used means more abortions will be performed, but more abortions is better than more contraception according to the logic used by your example.

Peace
Hello,

I have to disagree, the last two parts of my little argument are only good with the first part. And my first part is not faulty because I never said “all people”. The statement is referring to a general trend.
 
Tammy 57 you wrote:
One correction: I do not believe a woman would be “given the resources she needed” to take care of the baby. “WASHINGTON, June 18 (UPI) – Raising a child from birth to age 17 cost middle-income parents $222,360 last year amid rising childcare and education expenses, the U.S. government reported.” That is June 18, 2010. That is to age 17. That does not include college. This staggering statistic may also help to explain the number of abortions which take place in the U.S. every year.

What is the cost of murdering your unborn child and living with that knowledge for the rest of your life?

Can our values be reduced to mathematical equations? Is morality governed by financing?
Here’s my mathematical equation for you:

18 years of age, pregnant
13 weeks’ gestation
0 experience
  • 1 abortion
    40 years of amends to God
That’s my experience.

tammy57
 
Hello,

I have to disagree, the last two parts of my little argument are only good with the first part. And my first part is not faulty because I never said “all people”. The statement is referring to a general trend.
Just a couple of points, you think that the last part of your theory requires the first part to be true and since it isn’t because the first statement about contraceptives is not always true , your statement as a whole is not logically correct.

However, that doesn’t mean that the last two statements are also untrue. I agree with you that
More pregnancies = More unwanted pregnancies
More unwanted pregnancies = More abortions.

Therefore anything that decreases unwanted pregnancies decreases abortions.

Your first statement about- Contraception= Belief in a consequence free sex is on the face of it false because people wouldn’t practice contraception if non use of contraception didn’t have a negative consequence for them.

Peace
 
That’s not true that women going to an abortion clinic automatically know what they’re doing and don’t want or need our intrusive help. Women get into these situations because of the enemy in these three forms: the devil , the world or themselves. They go not knowing who to turn to in this “cisis mode”. We offer hope , someone to turn in this very troubling time.While many believe that it’s just her choice and don’t think about the baby or the mental or emotional anguish . Not to mention the sin and sin’s consequences - eternal death for those in procuring abortion. "Just mind your business ". We’re christians and such we are called upon to be followers /imitators of God. And what is God but not love and compassion and justice. Are we loving if we don’t defend the widow or the orphan/ those most vulnerable? Are we loving if we see a sin and don’ t try to help? Are we loving if we see someone about to fall into the deadly lie that there’s no other choice. I’m been on the sidewalk at these arbortuaries with women that have been lied that it’s not a baby and it’ll be ok. LIES!! I’ve seen women and men when you tell them the facts and not lies their babies live another day and they don’t go through all that guilt. Years later and they’re not ok . They’ve gone through so much suffering because they fell for the lies of the world. Or so much pressure from employers , friends ,family, boyfriends even husbands.We talked to women who’ve been so abused that when we tell them that God loves them , they don’t/can’t believe it. Even if I’ve helped one soul from all that , it’ll be worth it. We offer them true choices such as another place to live, food and clothes , education, job training. Many think it’s a choice but up to 68% feel presured or coerced into aborting. Go to www.unchoice.org for more info. God bless and keep you.
 
Surely you’re familiar with the idea “Once a Catholic, Always a Catholic”? Mass-going or not, fornicating outside of wedlock or not, receiving the Sacraments or not, once we are born into it or indoctrinated with it and reach the age of reason, we cannot escape the designation and all of its duties and proscriptions. Catholic till the bitter end for many; Catholic to the end for others.

Maybe this is why so many Catholic women identify themselves as such on documents at the abortion clinics. They are bound to do so.

One correction: I do not believe a woman would be “given the resources she needed” to take care of the baby. * “WASHINGTON, June 18 (UPI) – Raising a child from birth to age 17 cost middle-income parents $222,360 last year amid rising childcare and education expenses, the U.S. government reported.”* That is June 18, 2010. That is to age 17. * That does not include college*. This staggering statistic may also help to explain the number of abortions which take place in the U.S. every year.

Please, I said explain, not excuse.

tammy57
That’s not true that women going to an abortion clinic automatically know what they’re doing and don’t want or need our intrusive help. Women get into these situations because of the enemy in these three forms: the devil , the world or themselves. They go not knowing who to turn to in this “cisis mode”. We offer hope , someone to turn in this very troubling time.While many believe that it’s just her choice and don’t think about the baby or the mental or emotional anguish . Not to mention the sin and sin’s consequences - eternal death for those in procuring abortion. "Just mind your business ". We’re christians and such we are called upon to be followers /imitators of God. And what is God but not love and compassion and justice. Are we loving if we don’t defend the widow or the orphan/ those most vulnerable? Are we loving if we see a sin and don’ t try to help? Are we loving if we see someone about to fall into the deadly lie that there’s no other choice. I’m been on the sidewalk at these arbortuaries with women that have been lied that it’s not a baby and it’ll be ok. LIES!! I’ve seen women and men when you tell them the facts and not lies their babies live another day and they don’t go through all that guilt. Years later and they’re not ok . They’ve gone through so much suffering because they fell for the lies of the world. Or so much pressure from employers , friends ,family, boyfriends even husbands.We talked to women who’ve been so abused that when we tell them that God loves them , they don’t/can’t believe it. Even if I’ve helped one soul from all that , it’ll be worth it. We offer them true choices such as another place to live, food and clothes , education, job training. Many think it’s a choice but up to 68% feel presured or coerced into aborting. Go to www.unchoice.org for more info. God bless and keep you.
 
Here’s my mathematical equation for you:

18 years of age, pregnant
13 weeks’ gestation
0 experience
  • 1 abortion
    40 years of amends to God
That’s my experience.

tammy57
Thank you for sharing that, Tammy. And it goes right back to my point: Contraception is what ushered in the “great sexual revolution” whereby women began to lose their own self worth, fall into the negative lies about “free sex” and “It’s MY body and I do what I want” never mind about all the consequences. Before contraception was introduced into our society, most women did not fall for the trap of having sex as a way to “prove your love” for some guy. Most waited until marriage, and protected their sexuality as a God-given gift to bring forth new life inside of married love. Women have definitely paid a high price for the past 50 years, and continue to have all sorts of problems with their own identity as women.

My own daughter was literally bullied into having an abortion by her older boyfriend and his father at the tender age of 15. I knew nothing about this until she was a 35 year old recovering alcoholic and drug addict. Talk about a life of pain. She suffered greatly for her mistake, and the world will never know her little baby, my first grandchild.
 
Sherry G, Your post was both thought provoking and touching.

Sherry G : “My own daughter was literally bullied into having an abortion by her older boyfriend and his father at the tender age of 15. I knew nothing about this until she was a 35 year old recovering alcoholic and drug addict. Talk about a life of pain. She suffered greatly for her mistake, and the world will never know her little baby, my first grandchild.”

The points about your daughter are well taken. The consequences of abortion are severe and long lasting in many cases. And usually not fully considered by those looking to abort.

We put so much effort into stuff like planning vacations and the like, but many critical decisions about real life changing events are carried out in an incomplete manner without consideration of all the ramifications and end results. If the real results of abortions were fully known and required to be known many lives would be saved.

I am sorry for your loss.My condolences and prayers go out to you and your family.

Peace
 
That’s not true that women going to an abortion clinic automatically know what they’re doing and don’t want or need our intrusive help. Women get into these situations because of the enemy in these three forms: the devil , the world or themselves. They go not knowing who to turn to in this “cisis mode”. We offer hope , someone to turn in this very troubling time.While many believe that it’s just her choice and don’t think about the baby or the mental or emotional anguish . Not to mention the sin and sin’s consequences - eternal death for those in procuring abortion. "Just mind your business ". We’re christians and such we are called upon to be followers /imitators of God. And what is God but not love and compassion and justice. Are we loving if we don’t defend the widow or the orphan/ those most vulnerable? Are we loving if we see a sin and don’ t try to help? Are we loving if we see someone about to fall into the deadly lie that there’s no other choice. I’m been on the sidewalk at these arbortuaries with women that have been lied that it’s not a baby and it’ll be ok. LIES!! I’ve seen women and men when you tell them the facts and not lies their babies live another day and they don’t go through all that guilt. Years later and they’re not ok . They’ve gone through so much suffering because they fell for the lies of the world. Or so much pressure from employers , friends ,family, boyfriends even husbands.We talked to women who’ve been so abused that when we tell them that God loves them , they don’t/can’t believe it. Even if I’ve helped one soul from all that , it’ll be worth it. We offer them true choices such as another place to live, food and clothes , education, job training. Many think it’s a choice but up to 68% feel presured or coerced into aborting. Go to www.unchoice.org for more info. God bless and keep you.
No woman entering an abortion clinic “automatically knows” what she is doing. Most have a small window of time within which they can consider their options. They run the gamut from civilized discussions with their husbands over a ruddy cabernet in the comfort of their tidy homes to solitary agonizing over the entrapment, frozen with fear and rage and worry about the father of the fetus, the fetus itself, over money, over losing that job they just got two weeks ago. Although most understand the available options, there are some who simply cannot see through the window of adopting their child out after birth, so abortion becomes their solution. I strongly disagree that interference from the outside at the doors of the clinic is helpful in any way. For better or worse, with or without regret, the steps taken through the doors are almost always with a singularity of purpose, to end the pregnancy. The decision has been made. Yes, there have always been exceptions. Yes, there are women who change their minds. But the vast majority do not, and no amount of placard shaking and stage-voiced prayer will have any effect whatever.

I notice that your perpetrators are “the devil, the world or themselves”, that these are the “causes” of unwanted or unplanned pregnancies. Nowhere do you mention the man’s role in this scenario, the lies that he may have told to get what he wanted. You can call that the work of the devil, but I call it nearly every single adolescent male and a significant number of adult males. Men are hard-wired to pursue sexual activity. Morals and manners are the first victims in this game. Let us please hold men 100% accountable for accidentally creating life if we are going to hold women 100% accountable.

As with any political or moral issue, abortion has its polarity and all attendant press, statistics, anecdotes. It’s a difficult topic to measure and assess because of privacy issues and the spun-off misinformation that comes with that. I have been pro-choice for forty years and will continue to believe that each individual has a right to decide what action is most appropriate in the face of an unplanned pregnancy. If a woman chooses abortion, she will suffer whatever consequences may befall her. You, as a judgmental outsider, protesting on the steps of the clinic, will not. So your actions are moot, having no practical significance other than possibly garnering favor with your God in your efforts to superimpose your morality upon women who do not need it.

I don’t discourage you from protesting or praying or believing as you do. It is your right. You believe in what you’re doing and stand by your convictions, both honorable choices. But lay blame or judgment or a hand or a threat upon a single woman entering an abortion clinic and you are infringing on her right to exercise her own judgment about her own situation. She is prepared to live with the consequences. I was.

Who is “we” who offer these women so many choices? Are you an organization? Who pays for shelter, food, clothes, education and job training? Have you thought that maybe some women get pregnant for the free ride?

tammy57
 
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