contraception??

[cincou]

Help! I have been married for 14 years, am the mom of 5 children, and I am considering using birth control for the first time. I want to be faithful to Church teachings, and Idon’t want to do anything that would jeapordize our souls.
Here is my situation:
My husband was born with a heart defect. At the time, they thought it was because his mother was exposed to measels when she was pregnant, and he was told that it would not be passed on. Our second child was born with the same condition.
As was our third child, then our fourth was fine, but our fifth was born with the condition, but more severe. He had open heart surgery at 6 months old. (our 3rd child had open heart at 20 months, but our 2nd was Healed) I have also had 2 misscarriages in between. ( I must admit, some of my conceptions were the result of NOT observing/charting for NFP !!!) ( NFP is not working for us at this time because my cycle is messed up, and I have peak mucus daily) I am VERY reluctant to conceive another child because of this genetic condition. I was told by a geneticist that there is a 50/50 chance that any time I conceive, that child will have a heart condition. I have very stong faith in God; He has been my strength through both of my sons surgeries.( they have both had many follow up “procedures”) But I DO NOT want to have to go through this again! It is absolutely heartbreaking to see your baby go through each and every test, bloodwork, surgery, etc. and it is a constant weight on my shoulders. I can’t begin to explain what this condition entails on a daily basis. Mind you, I am a very strong person, and many people tell me that they personally don’t know how I do it. (FAITH, that’s how)
This is my ultimate struggle:
Why should my husband and I take the “risk” of giving life to another child that would most likely have a serious heart condition? Isn’t that “selfish” to knowingly do this and have this child suffer because of us?but yet, the other side of me says, well, that’s up to God, isnt’ it??? so, you see my dilema??? Plus, I recently went to confession, because we haven’t been “fullfilling” our marital duty, so to speak. (really just sinning by not having intercourse) and I explained to the priest my scenario, and he told me that it would be OK for us to use some type of contraception (I am against the pill, because of the possiblilty of a fertilized egg being aborted) and that God would forgive us for doing so. I would appreciate any comments/suggestions regarding this issue.

Confused, yet hopeful, in nh

 

[Petergee]

You are obviously having severe trials, but contraception is not the answer. Every form of birth control has a “failure” rate. I suggest you seek advice from a NFP expert - NFP can be just as effective even with irregular cycles, and just as effective as contraceptive methods. I must respectfully disagree with the priest. I agree that your circumstances may make using contraception subjectively less sinful, but it is still a sin.

And “not fulfilling your marital duty”, provided you both freely agree on this course of action, is not a sin.

 

[Jennifer_J]

Contraception is not the answer! You need to figure out why your cycles are “messed up” and whether the mucus you are seeing is fertile or not. I’d suggest you contact an NFP teaching couple, an NFP doctor or one of the centers for learning NFP.
Here are some links to help you:
ccli.org sympto thermal method
boma-usa.org mucus only
popepaulvi.com/ can help figure out fertility problems

Articles on NFP, contraception and finding NFP drs, and teachers
omsoul.com

I’m sure the temptation is great to use contraception in your situation, but I think you would be better served by figuring out your cycles and ruling out any problems. I’m sure if you contact any of the above organizations, someone would be more than happy to help you and point you in the right, moral, healthful direction! God bless you. I’ll say a special prayer for your intentions tonight!
Jennifer

 

[Kristina_P]

cincou:

Help! I have been married for 14 years, am the mom of 5 children, and I am considering using birth control for the first time. I want to be faithful to Church teachings, and Idon’t want to do anything that would jeapordize our souls.
Here is my situation:
My husband was born with a heart defect. At the time, they thought it was because his mother was exposed to measels when she was pregnant, and he was told that it would not be passed on. Our second child was born with the same condition.
As was our third child, then our fourth was fine, but our fifth was born with the condition, but more severe. He had open heart surgery at 6 months old. (our 3rd child had open heart at 20 months, but our 2nd was Healed) I have also had 2 misscarriages in between. ( I must admit, some of my conceptions were the result of NOT observing/charting for NFP !!!) ( NFP is not working for us at this time because my cycle is messed up, and I have peak mucus daily) I am VERY reluctant to conceive another child because of this genetic condition. I was told by a geneticist that there is a 50/50 chance that any time I conceive, that child will have a heart condition. I have very stong faith in God; He has been my strength through both of my sons surgeries.( they have both had many follow up “procedures”) But I DO NOT want to have to go through this again! It is absolutely heartbreaking to see your baby go through each and every test, bloodwork, surgery, etc. and it is a constant weight on my shoulders. I can’t begin to explain what this condition entails on a daily basis. Mind you, I am a very strong person, and many people tell me that they personally don’t know how I do it. (FAITH, that’s how)
This is my ultimate struggle:
Why should my husband and I take the “risk” of giving life to another child that would most likely have a serious heart condition? Isn’t that “selfish” to knowingly do this and have this child suffer because of us?but yet, the other side of me says, well, that’s up to God, isnt’ it??? so, you see my dilema??? Plus, I recently went to confession, because we haven’t been “fullfilling” our marital duty, so to speak. (really just sinning by not having intercourse) and I explained to the priest my scenario, and he told me that it would be OK for us to use some type of contraception (I am against the pill, because of the possiblilty of a fertilized egg being aborted) and that God would forgive us for doing so. I would appreciate any comments/suggestions regarding this issue.

Confused, yet hopeful, in nh

Your post indicates that you know that contraception is wrong. Even your priest, misleading as he may be, acknowledges this. (Otherwise, why would you need forgiveness for it?) Your priest, however, displays an astounding lack of trust in God. I know it’s easy for me, a healthy and unmarried young woman, to tell you to trust and obey God in this situation, but can you really think of a good reason not to? God has never implied that knowingly disobeying Him is okay.

I’ll be praying for you and for the health of your family.

 

[pira114]

If you’re looking for acceptance of artificial birth control here, you’re probably not going to find it. Sounds like you’re looking for someone to tell you it’s O.K. to do what you already want to do.

I’m going to put myself in front of the firing squad for you. [Edit: Offensive Comment Deleted] Search your heart and Soul and do what you think is right.

 

[CatholicSam]

A thought: Your husband has survived this long with the condition. He has five beautiful children and a loving wife. That’s a pretty successful life!! Now, by taking the birth control pill, you could be aborting babies every cycle. The pill does not always work by preventing ovulation. It also works by preventing a fertilized egg (read “baby”) from being able to survive in the womb. What’s better? Having to live with a heart condition (as your husband has) or being killed a few weeks after you’re created? Would your husband be better off if his fertilized egg was killed in the womb? No! God had a plan for him, and God also has a plan for every human being conceived (I’m not saying that you need to conceive as many kids as possible, only that you must not kill the kids that you do conceive).

Have you consulted an NFP-only physician? He or she might be knowledgable about an option you haven’t even considered or might know of other ways to chart that do not rely on the cervical mucus.

You mentioned that your second child was “Healed.” Was that a miraculous healing?

 

[1ke]

Well, first, your husband has this condition and he obviously leads a full live with a loving wife, a job, and children. Certainly it would be great if he didn’t have this condition-- but he is making out just fine. AS WILL YOUR KIDS.

I’m not saying you should have another, but if you did it would not be the end of the world for you or them. And, contraception is falsely lulls you into thinking you will not conceive-- but only complete continence is actually 100% effective. So, don’t be fooled by the shimmer of fool’s gold.

If you are not satisfied with your method of NFP, look into another. For example, for many women with all-the-time mucus, the Creighton Model is a better option than the Couple to Couple model. Go to www.creightonomodel.com and www.fertilitycare.org to find more info.

Contraception is not a moral choice. Do not consider it. It is tempting because Satan is always tempting. Your priest is 100% wrong and he will have a lot to answer for on judgment day. You cannot give someone permission to sin for goodness sake! How ridiculous! Find another priest-confessor.

Find out about Creighton-- and also look up the Pope Paul VI Institute.

 

[Jennifer_J]

pira114:

I’m going to put myself in front of the firing squad for you… Search your heart and Soul and do what you think is right.

Since when is speaking the truth with love, narrowminded? No one here has said she’s bad or evil, we’ve all said she should find out the cause of her problems and seek out help with NFP. Contraception is not the answer. All forms of birthcontrol fail and she could become pregnant even while contracepting. The only way to ensure NO pregnancy is to not have sex. She certainly has a serious enough reason to postpone/not have anymore babies, but the moral way to do this is thru NFP. No one here said too bad, you have to continue having babies!!!

A properly formed conscience is in line with church teaching–not some touchy–feely do what you think is right idea…

 

[Agricola]

Dear Cincou,

You have serious reason it seems, to forego marital relations. Is that what you really want though? It seems to me like the trouble you are having is not whether to use contraceptives (which you know to be wrong) or not, but whether to have another child (it sounds to me like you want to have another child) or not. The decision is yours to make, as long as it is within Church teachings.

As I see it from what you’ve said, your options are thus:

1. abstain until your cycle regulates, then use NFP
2. resume marital relations with your husband and trust in God, praying all the while that if you do conceive, the child will be healthy.

I’ll pray for you, and for a solution to your problem. May you always hold God’s gift of life dear.

God bless,

Agricola

 

[cincou]

Thank you all for responding. I will clarify a couple of things.
I have used NFP for 15 years.(ok, like I said before, this includes NOT charting ) I am against the Pill. Yes, ultimately NFP is my answer!!! I have a great NFP counselor, but a DR is not near my home. I believe that my cycle is “messed” up due to a) a hormone imbalance, and/or b) my thyroid condition.
I do NOT wish to have any more children. Like I said, 2 of my boys will need ongoing care for their condition because of it’s severity.(YES, praise God, my first son was miraculously healed! I took him to several healing Masses, and he was given the annointing of the sick, and when he went for a follow-up echocardiogram, they suddenly couldn’t “find” anything!!! )
I’m not trying to sound selfish, but it does take an emotional toll. I guess that is my whole issue! I do NOT want to bring another child into this word, and have the possiblity that he/she would have a heart condition. I can NOT go through this again!
I guess for contraception I was thinking of condoms. Here is my reasoning:
a) It could be short term until my I am able to be confident with NFP, and my cycle returns to “normal”
b) If God really wants me to be pregnant, he could manage!
c) It would allow us to be intimate instead of what we’ve been doing. ( I guess what we’ve been doing is technically a sin too)
d) I really have no clue!!! I am flustered

Am I just fooling myself? does any of this make sense? My husband and I do plan on praying about this very seriously before we make a decision. I would appreciate prayers from all of you as well. This just isn’t something that we can discuss with our close family/friends. Many don’t have the Church’s teachings in mind, you know?
Thank you again, and I look forward to reading more responses.
Cincou

 

[mercygate]

cincou:

Thank you all for responding. I will clarify a couple of things.
I have used NFP for 15 years.(ok, like I said before, this includes NOT charting ) I am against the Pill. Yes, ultimately NFP is my answer!!! I have a great NFP counselor, but a DR is not near my home. I believe that my cycle is “messed” up due to a) a hormone imbalance, and/or b) my thyroid condition.
I do NOT wish to have any more children. Like I said, 2 of my boys will need ongoing care for their condition because of it’s severity.(YES, praise God, my first son was miraculously healed! I took him to several healing Masses, and he was given the annointing of the sick, and when he went for a follow-up echocardiogram, they suddenly couldn’t “find” anything!!! )
I’m not trying to sound selfish, but it does take an emotional toll. I guess that is my whole issue! I do NOT want to bring another child into this word, and have the possiblity that he/she would have a heart condition. I can NOT go through this again!
I guess for contraception I was thinking of condoms. Here is my reasoning:
a) It could be short term until my I am able to be confident with NFP, and my cycle returns to “normal”
b) If God really wants me to be pregnant, he could manage!
c) It would allow us to be intimate instead of what we’ve been doing. ( I guess what we’ve been doing is technically a sin too)
d) I really have no clue!!! I am flustered

Am I just fooling myself? does any of this make sense? My husband and I do plan on praying about this very seriously before we make a decision. I would appreciate prayers from all of you as well. This just isn’t something that we can discuss with our close family/friends. Many don’t have the Church’s teachings in mind, you know?
Thank you again, and I look forward to reading more responses.
Cincou

Your story is certainly compelling. And you certainly have good reasons for not wishing to conceive another child.

That said, I hope you will not think me contrary if I say that if you are not charting, then you are just playing “Vatican roulette,” you are not using NFP. Take the advice of earlier posters and get some sound counsel on NFP from reliable sources.

And where do you get the idea that it is a sin not to have intercourse when there are serious reasons to abstain (unless you are practicing coitus interruptus or some other irregular form of sexual intimacy)?

 

[cincou]

Vatican Roulette has gained me a couple of little blessings

Since my last child, who has the most serious condition, I have been charting. This is how I have come to know about my health issues. My counselor even remarked at how many infertile days I have (none) !!! so, I haven’t just been twidling my thumbs and praying to not get pregnant! I know that doesn’t work! This is why we are in our current position. And yes, we have been practicing other irregular forms of intimacy.

 

[TableServant]

pira114:

If you’re looking for acceptance of artificial birth control here, you’re probably not going to find it. Sounds like you’re looking for someone to tell you it’s O.K. to do what you already want to do.

I’m going to put myself in front of the firing squad for you. I don’t think God is as narrow minded as most of the people here are. Sorry to those I just offended. Search your heart and Soul and do what you think is right.

Wow, “narrow minded”. I’ll try to take no offense and consider myself, instead, focused on God.

 

[1ke]

cincou:

I guess for contraception I was thinking of condoms. Here is my reasoning:
a) It could be short term until my I am able to be confident with NFP, and my cycle returns to “normal”
b) If God really wants me to be pregnant, he could manage!
c) It would allow us to be intimate instead of what we’ve been doing. ( I guess what we’ve been doing is technically a sin too)
d) I really have no clue!!! I am flustered

Well, you know contraception is a sin, and to do it with knowledge and consent-- mortal sin. So, none of your (a) - (d) can ever justify a mortal sin.

(a) Not a reason for mortal sin – and of all the contraception methods, you choose the least effective, not a good move dear.
(b) God tells us not to test him. God does not override our selfish will.
(c) Not a reason for mortal sin-- or to commit 2
(d) You’re frustrated because you know the truth

cincou:

Am I just fooling myself?

Yes, you are.

cincou:

does any of this make sense?

Yes, I know you are frustrated and scared. But the answer is never to sin. Catholics are required to form their conscience based on Church teaching-- and church teaching is VERY clear.

 

[1ke]

cincou:

Vatican Roulette has gained me a couple of little blessings

What a derogatory and insulting term. “Vatican Roulette” indeed-- how dare you? What this means is that you were not using any method and are now trying to somehow blame the Church and cast natural family planning in a disparaging light. Shame on you! NFP is not “roulette”… but you weren’t even actually using NFP. You were being providential-- something NOT required by the church. You certainly know that sex leads to conception so you have no one to blame but YOURSELF.

cincou:

Since my last child, who has the most serious condition, I have been charting. This is how I have come to know about my health issues.

Good.

cincou:

My counselor even remarked at how many infertile days I have (none) !!!

That is why we’v suggested that you find another method and consult with Pope Paul VI institute.

Honestly, I don’t know why you posted here since you seem to just want people to agree with you that contraception is a good idea. You won’t find that here. You have, however, found good solid counsel on the subject. You just don’t want to accept it.

 

[MamaSusie]

I have the same issue with NFP…I olvulate twice a month, and they are about 5 days apart. If you factor 6 days before, and 3 days after, each date…along with the overlaps, I’m pretty much fertile all the time. It must run in the army, er, uh…family.

I still used it. It still worked. That’s the beauty of NFP…it always works, because God’s Will is done whichever way it goes.

 

[TableServant]

cincou:

Why should my husband and I take the “risk” of giving life to another child that would most likely have a serious heart condition? Isn’t that “selfish” to knowingly do this and have this child suffer because of us?but yet, the other side of me says, well, that’s up to God, isnt’ it???

I’m very sorry that you and your family have had to go through so much suffering. I do understand that you are frustrated and scared. I think that anyone would be.

What strikes me about your comment above is the question of being selfish. That has so many edges to it. Is it selfish to want to be intimate with your husband? Is it selfish to want to care for your children, the ones that are with you now? Is it selfish to not want to have any other children that God has planned for you? These are all things that only you can discern, with help, of course.

As other posters have commented, you do, obviously, know that artificial contraception is a sin, and, from my reading of your posts, you do want to avoid that, and even the near occasion of sin, but that your current practice of NFP is not working. I know that there have been several suggestions of sites and doctors to try. If, as you say, your fertility issues are the result of a hormonal imbalance or thyroid condition, I would suggest having those evaluated and cared for. One of the blessings of marriage is giving your whole self to your spouse, and part of that giving is keeping yourself whole - being healthy. If your body is not healthy, and this includes your reproductive system, you may not be giving the “best you” to your husband. Of course, you are giving the best you that you can right now, but in caring for your condition, things may improve.

I don’t agree that contraception is the answer to your intimacy question. I think that it would be far more intimate for you and your husband to judiciously abstain, for a short period, while your health issues are resolved, if they can be. No, I don’t recommend abstaining forever! I hope and pray that your condition can be managed and your cycle brought to a normal, or at least predictable, rhythm.

Yes, I do agree with your priest that:

cincou:

God would forgive us for doing so.

However, do you really want to be intimate with your husband with the attitude that what you are doing is sinful, and that God will forgive you for doing so? If one of your children came to you and said “Mommy, I know that what I’m about to do is wrong, but I know that you are going to forgive me after I do it, so I’m going to do it anyway,” how would you react?

I truly don’t want to sound harsh. And, I don’t want to be judgmental. I have not been in your situation, and, no matter how I try, can’t even imagine the anguish that you are suffering. Ultimately, all of this is up to you. We can only advise and offer support.

 

[cincou]

1ke:

What a derogatory and insulting term. “Vatican Roulette” indeed-- how dare you? What this means is that you were not using any method and are now trying to somehow blame the Church and cast natural family planning in a disparaging light. Shame on you! NFP is not “roulette”… but you weren’t even actually using NFP.

I was using a term that a previous person used. It was a little jest. For while, I was NOT using NFP properly (only keeping things in my head and not charting), and I am NOT BLAMING ANYONE for doing so.

 

[mercygate]

1ke:

What a derogatory and insulting term. “Vatican Roulette” indeed–

The term “Vatican roulette” was mine, not the OP’s: referring to a calendar method of family planning which excludes a critical tool of NFP, which is charting.

how dare you?

Very helpful.

What this means is that you were not using any method and are now trying to somehow blame the Church and cast natural family planning in a disparaging light. Shame on you! NFP is not “roulette”… but you weren’t even actually using NFP. You were being providential-- something NOT required by the church. You certainly know that sex leads to conception so you have no one to blame but YOURSELF.

You clearly did not comprehend anything of the OPs problem. Get down off your high horse and try being human. Blame is not required. cincou has enough REAL issues to handle without the addition of your righteous indignation. The assumption that she is hell-bent for contraception is absolutely unwarranted. Otherwise she would not have brought the matter to this forum.

 

[1ke]

cincou:

1ke:

What a derogatory and insulting term. “Vatican Roulette” indeed-- how dare you? What this means is that you were not using any method and are now trying to somehow blame the Church and cast natural family planning in a disparaging light. Shame on you! NFP is not “roulette”… but you weren’t even actually using NFP.

I was using a term that a previous person used. It was a little jest. For while, I was NOT using NFP properly (only keeping things in my head and not charting), and I am NOT BLAMING ANYONE for doing so.

I apologize for misunderstanding. I really get upset when I see that “Vatican Roulette” stuff becuase it’s so insulting to those of us who use NFP and also to the Catholic faith as a whole.

I did not know you were jesting, and that is unfortunate-- the internet and written word does not always convey meaning, tone, gestures, etc.

So, I apologize for coming back so harshly.