Contradictions in Trent and Orange on Freewill?

[bwv_1080]

Someone on another forum pointed this out:

The freedom of will that was destroyed in the first man can be restored only by the grace of baptism, for what is lost can be returned only by the one who was able to give it" … Council of Orange 13th Canon

“*If any one saith, that, since Adam’s sin, the free will of man is lost and extinguished… let him be anathema” * …Council of Trent 5th Canon

Does any one have a take on this apparant contradition, especially in light of patristic comments like this:

*I]Justin Martyr

CHAP. CXLI.–FREE-WILL IN MEN AND ANGELS.

“But that you may not have a pretext for saying that Christ must have been crucified, and that those who transgressed must have been among your nation, and that the matter could not have been otherwise, I said briefly by anticipation, that God, wishing men and angels to follow His will, resolved to create them free to do righteousness; possessing reason, that they may know by whom they are created, and through whom they, not existing formerly, do now exist; and with a law that they should be judged by Him, if they do anything contrary to right reason: and of ourselves we, men and angels, shall be convicted of having acted sinfully, unless we repent beforehand. But if the word of God foretells that some angels and men shall be certainly punished, it did so because it foreknew that they would be unchangeably [wicked], but not because God had created them so.”

Irenaeus Against Heresies Book IV

Chapter XXXVII.-Men are Possessed of Free Will, and Endowed with the Faculty of Making a Choice. It is Not True, Therefore, that Some are by Nature Good, and Others Bad.

1. But if some had been made by nature bad, and others good, these latter would not be deserving of praise for being good, for such were they created; nor would the former be reprehensible, for thus they were made [originally]. But since all men are of the same nature, able both to hold fast and to do what is good; and, on the other hand, having also the power to cast it from them and not to do it,-….

Chapter XXXIX.-Man is Endowed with the Faculty of Distinguishing Good and Evil; So That, Without Compulsion, He Has the Power, by His Own Will and Choice, to Perform God’s Commandments, by Doing Which He Avoids the Evils Prepared for the Rebellious.

1. Man has received the knowledge of good and evil. It is good to obey God, and to believe in Him, and to keep His commandment, and this is the life of man; as not to obey God is evil, and this is his death. Since God, therefore, gave [to man] such mental power (magnanimitatem) man knew both the good of obedience and the evil of disobedience, that the eye of the mind, receiving experience of both, may with judgment make choice of the better things; and that he may never become indolent or neglectful of God’s command; and learning by experience that it is an evil thing which deprives him of life, that is, disobedience to God, may never attempt it at all, but that, knowing that what preserves his life, namely, obedience to God, is good, he may diligently keep it with all earnestness.*

 

[AmandaPS]

I could be wrong, but I don’t think what was meant by the Council of Orange was free will, but freedom from sin. Sinlessness was destroyed in the first man (thus giving us original sin), which can only be restored by the grace of baptism. But I’d have to search out the documents and read them in context. I guess our sins, if unrepented, have a stronger hold on our will, thereby making it easier for us to sin?

Anyone else?

 

[quintessential5]

AmandaPS:

I could be wrong, but I don’t think what was meant by the Council of Orange was free will, but freedom from sin. Sinlessness was destroyed in the first man (thus giving us original sin), which can only be restored by the grace of baptism. But I’d have to search out the documents and read them in context. I guess our sins, if unrepented, have a stronger hold on our will, thereby making it easier for us to sin?

Anyone else?

I agree. Jesus has told us that the Truth will set us free. But that doesn’t mean that we did not already possess the will to freely choose between right and wrong. It merely means that apart from God we cannot escape from the stain of original sin, that is a tendency to disobey God (hence, without God’s grace we cannot be saved). As humans we can be slaves to sin, and it is only by God’s supernatural grace that we can be free from that slavery.

This is really only a guess as well though, as I have not read these documents in context either.

 

[Pug]

Here are Canon 1 and Canon 8, which might be helpful to you:

**The Canons Of The Council Of Orange **

Canon 1. If anyone denies that it is the whole man, that is, both body and soul, that was “changed for the worse” through the offense of Adam’s sin, but believes that the freedom of the soul remains unimpaired and that only the body is subject to corruption, he is deceived by the error of Pelagius and contradicts the scripture which says, “The soul that sins shall die” (Ezek. 18:20); and, “Do you not know that if you yield yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are the slaves of the one whom you obey?” (Rom. 6:126); and, “For whatever overcomes a man, to that he is enslaved” (2 Pet. 2:19).

Canon 8. If anyone maintains that some are able to come to the grace of baptism by mercy but others through free will, which has manifestly been corrupted in all those who have been born after the transgression of the first man, it is proof that he has no place in the true faith. For he denies that the free will of all men has been weakened through the sin of the first man, or at least holds that it has been affected in such a way that they have still the ability to seek the mystery of eternal salvation by themselves without the revelation of God. The Lord himself shows how contradictory this is by declaring that no one is able to come to him “unless the Father who sent me draws him” (John 6:44), as he also says to Peter, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven” (Matt. 16:17), and as the Apostle says, “No one can say ‘Jesus is Lord’ except by the Holy Spirit” (1 Cor. 12:3).

You can find the text on www.ewtn.com in their library area. I cut the text from a download I have from there.

Perhaps this is similar to Council of Trent session 6 Canon three (typed in myself, so blame me if there is a typo!):

“If anyone says that without the predisposing inspiration of the Holy Ghost and without His help, man can believe, hope, love, or be repentant as he ought, so that the grace of justification may be bestowed on him, let him be anathema.”

My take: we need the help of grace to turn to God, we can’t just perfectly turn to him by ourselves and merit justification. We cannot be Pelagians. Our wills prior to justification are not completely broken, however. We can still choose to do good things, but we can’t fix ourselves.

I don’t really know much about early heresies or the council of orange. But I think it might have something to do with this guy, Pelagius, and how he was wrong about our free will and stuff.