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Oren
Guest
Matthew and Mark, where one says, Who is not with me is against me, and then the other says Who is not against us is for us. Is this contradictory, what is the explanation? thanks for any answers.
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Apologia100
Guest
You might want to post the actual scriptural references so that people can research and not think you are trolling for a reaction. I will do it for you, and give a reply.
Matthew 12:30, “He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters.”
Here Jesus is teaching that there can be no ambiguity when it comes to belief in Him, if you are not for Him, you are automatically against Him, there is no neutral ground.
Mark 9:38-40: "John said to him, “Teacher, we saw a man casting out demons in your name, and we forbade him, because he was not following us.” But Jesus said, “Do not forbid him; for no one who does a mighty work in my name will be able soon after to speak evil of me. For he that is not against us is for us.”
Here Jesus, in a conversation with John, is talking about allegiance. John is complaining that someone else is out doing the work that the Apostles whould rightfully be out doing, and feels outraged because this person is not an Apostle. Jesus corrects John, telling him that the person is doing the work of God and that the Apostles have no right to stop him, because he is not working against the Kingdon, but rather for it.
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Oren
Guest
oh im not, i tried to put up the quote references, but it cut me out after 30 seconds, and i lost it. i’m sorry for appearing that way. i will remember in the future though.
i still can’t understand the explanation though. are you saying that since he’s not ‘directly’ teaching something contrary, hes ok? it seems like that would undermind i guess you could say ‘pure’ doctrine, and would lead one to think, hey, as long as I’m not teaching directly against you (but apart from you nonetheless, maybe like the Eastern Orthodox today) that that is ok. I don’t see how that fits with other teachings? it would sort of go against the ONE body of Christ that Paul taught and the Church, i mean if you think of it like that.
I know I’m probably totally understanding it wrong though. The thing is though this guy brought up the objection that these two passages contradict each other. But I guess Im seeing a deeper problem with it, as I just explained. Again, I know I am having a hard time understanding. Could someone try to explain it to me?
I’m also probly not explaining myself well. I’m just having a hard time with these two scriptures, understanding them i mean.
i still can’t understand the explanation though. are you saying that since he’s not ‘directly’ teaching something contrary, hes ok? it seems like that would undermind i guess you could say ‘pure’ doctrine, and would lead one to think, hey, as long as I’m not teaching directly against you (but apart from you nonetheless, maybe like the Eastern Orthodox today) that that is ok. I don’t see how that fits with other teachings? it would sort of go against the ONE body of Christ that Paul taught and the Church, i mean if you think of it like that.
I know I’m probably totally understanding it wrong though. The thing is though this guy brought up the objection that these two passages contradict each other. But I guess Im seeing a deeper problem with it, as I just explained. Again, I know I am having a hard time understanding. Could someone try to explain it to me?
I’m also probly not explaining myself well. I’m just having a hard time with these two scriptures, understanding them i mean.
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Apologia100
Guest
Jesus is not contradicting Himself, He can’t. He is talking about 2 different things. In the Matthew passage, in context, He is talking about loyalty to Him as Savior. If you are not loyal to Jesus Christ as Savior of the world, you are against Him. IN the context of the Marcan passage, Jesus is talking to John and the other apostles about allegiance to the cause of spreading the Gospel. Jesus says us in reference to Him and the Apostles. He is telling John, “don’t worry about that guy, he is helping us spread the word.” You need to take passages in context, otherwise you will be thrown off by people with an agenda.
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Fidelis
Guest
The answers given above are terrific examples of why you should always read any verse of Scripture in it’s immediate context. Typically people say that means at least the four verses before any given verse and the four right after, but sometimes it’s more than that. If you do that in this instance, you will see that Jesus was addressing two entirely different issues. So while the verses may seem to directly contradict each other, they don’t.
As the saying goes, “Any text, out of context, is a pretext.”
As the saying goes, “Any text, out of context, is a pretext.”
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Fergal
Guest
If you read them carefully you will see they are exactly the same. No contradictioin here at all.
Who is not with me is against me, and then the other says
Who is not against us is for us
They are the same!!! Read carefully.
Take the first one
Who is not with me is against me
Reverse the first and last part you get
Who is against me is not with me
Now the second says the same
Who is not against us is for us
Perfectly in harmony as we would expect.
Oh I love the Sacred Scriptures!!!
Fergal
Naas
Ireland
Who is not with me is against me, and then the other says
Who is not against us is for us
They are the same!!! Read carefully.
Take the first one
Who is not with me is against me
Reverse the first and last part you get
Who is against me is not with me
Now the second says the same
Who is not against us is for us
Perfectly in harmony as we would expect.
Oh I love the Sacred Scriptures!!!
Fergal
Naas
Ireland
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