Conversation on Hell with Kindergartener

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PietroPaolo

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Hi all,

After CCD this week I had an interesting conversation with my 5 year old on sin and Hell. I teach sixth grade and we had confession that night, which is what brought up the topics.

I posted a transcript of the conversation HERE.

But more to the point, how do you discuss these topics with your small children??

Thanks.
 
Interesting. My parents brought it up around 1st grade and explained that it’s there for bad people who don’t listen to God.
 
I remember this coming up in catechism class. The Scripture from Mass talked about a lake of fire for the damned, and they asked about that. The way I handled it was to bring up the plot of Satre’s play No Exit. In a nutshell, imagine that you and I find ourselves together forever in a room with a third person. The third person likes you, WANTS you for a friend, all to herself, but despises me. I want the third person all to myself, but despise you. You want me all to yourself, and despise the third person. What would an eternity of that be like–as the play says, being hated or else being made an object and doing the same to others with “No Exit”? Yes, it would be Hell.

The kids’ hair nearly stood on end at the prospect. I asked if they’d prefer that or a lake of fire with people who loved them. They chose the lake of fire in a heartbeat. I pointed out that in eternity, those who use others cannot be made happy. “Have you ever been around someone like that, someone who just can’t be happy? Not all the birthday cakes and parties and fun things to do could make a person like that happy, right?” Everyone knew what I meant. Well, I told them, eternity is beyond our imagination. Everything extends to its logical end. As it turns out, in eternity if you’re not a saint, you can’t be happy. You are going to be miserable, going to the extreme, as in agony in both soul and body. Call it a lake of fire, call it what you want, but if there is an eternity and people have the choice to not be saints, there has to be a hell, because being anything except a saint for eternity is suffering beyond what any of us can imagine.

Then I talked about Purgatory, which is the process of making a person who is willing to be made a saint actually into a saint. The take-home message: Being made a saint will not be easier in Purgatory. Get started now and help others to get started now. Besides, being a saint is what we are made for. It can be hard, but it is “the good life”. Many people who became saints said this life is hard and that they longed for heaven, but nobody who became a saint wished they could go back to sin.

IOW, end on the positive note of becoming a saint, always.
 
I know how not to do it…

When I was 7, my CCD teacher taught us about Hell. She told us that there are demons lurking in every shadow of every room, just waiting to pounce on us. I expressly remember the phrase, “They wish to eat you, to tear you apart like a lion, to keep you away from God forever.”

That is terrifying to a kid. Hell, (pun completely intended) that is terrifying to an adult. It really left a mark on me that for many years had me in a state of fear of dark corners and shadows.

Your conversation with your son was really interesting. Really well done. Much better than my CCD instructor. 👍
 
The number one thing to stress about Hell and sin is that God does not want us to be afraid. God does not want us to be broken. God doesn’t want us to be in the misery of sin–which starts now. God is always coming to look for us, to look for anyone who is lost, and God would turn a galaxy upside down to find us. There is no one who is unwanted by God, who has made such a mess that repentance is impossible. The only thing that is impossible is to heal us when we won’t consent to it. There is nothing God has not and will not do to keep us out of misery, to make us happy beyond our imaginations, except to take away our freedom to make our own choices. That is the only thing God will not do to protect us and make us happy.
 
I am an Asst DRE and work with small children. With all ages I take the following approach. I first explain God and how is 100% love. Then I explain Heaven and how it is everything that is good. I tell them Heaven is like a great day - like Christmas - where you are given things you like, you eat your favorite foods, you go to Church and sing great songs. You take all of that good stuff and how it makes you feel and multiply it by 100. And that is sort of what Heaven is like. Lots of love.

Then I explain the devil and then on to Hell. I ask them to thing of their worst day. Woke up late, didn’t get to eat breakfast, clothes got wet on the way to school, failed a test, tripped and broke your arm… Now multiply that by 100. You don’t feel loved. There is no love in Hell.
 
Thanks for the ideas! I’m sure there will be more of these conversations in my future (especially with two more little ones coming up :)).
 
My seven-year-old recently said the following: “Hell is jail for dead people.” He followed up that comment with something like, “And they stay there forever.” That’s pretty good. Simple and it reflects how a child thinks.

It also occurs to me that our Blessed Mother allowed the children of Fatima to see the torments of hell. If it was okay for the Blessed Mother to be so specific about hell, it’s probably okay for us, too.
 
Good point. It’s a tough line to walk between telling them the truth (that Hell exists and “many” are heading there - cf. Matt 7:13) and not scaring them or making them neurotic and scrupulous. Christ did die so all might be saved (cf. 1 Tim 2:3-4) and we are to “Fear Not” (cf. Matt 14:27) so we need not live in terror of Hell, but we can’t pretend it isn’t a real possibility that we have to strive against.
 
PietroPaolo said:
Good point. It’s a tough line to walk between telling them the truth (that Hell exists and “many” are heading there - cf. Matt 7:13) and not scaring them or making them neurotic and scrupulous. Christ did die so all might be saved (cf. 1 Tim 2:3-4) and we are to “Fear Not” (cf. Matt 14:27) so we need not live in terror of Hell, but we can’t pretend it isn’t a real possibility that we have to strive against.
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Wow, you quote Scripture like a Protestant.😉 That’s not entirely a bad thing, though not entirely necessary either. What I find interesting is that on your most salient point, you didn’t really quote scripture, except perhaps the “fear not” quote that was a follow up. Instead, you spoke of not making them “neurotic and scrupulous.” The former choice of words is clearly a modernist term. I’m pretty sure Freud either coined or popularized the term. That’s not a smack down, but something to be aware of.

I’m just not so sure that, in this case, the path is so narrow, that the balance is so delicate. Consider this: According to the Barna Study, less than 8% of your CCD (or whatever you call it now) students (K-Confirmation) will go on to become practicing Catholics themselves. I don’t know why. We do know that more conservative religions and branches within Christianity and within Catholocism have a higher retention rate. So I suspect the vast majority of error on the Catechesis regarding hell is on the sugar-coating side and not on the tell-it-like-it-is side. “No Exit” aside, I just want to avoid the millstone.
 
dad_o_six said:
Wow, you quote Scripture like a Protestant.😉 That’s not entirely a bad thing, though not entirely necessary either.
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Quoting scripture becomes habitual after dealing with Prots for awhile. Whether or not it is necessary depends on to whom one is speaking.
dad_o_six said:
What I find interesting is that on your most salient point, you didn’t really quote scripture, except perhaps the “fear not” quote that was a follow up.
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My salient point was that we can’t diminish the prospects of ending up in Hell (where “many” will end up) nor can we forget that God wants all to be saved and to not live in fear. After all, the Prince of this World has been overthrown and death itself has died.
dad_o_six said:
you spoke of not making them “neurotic and scrupulous.” The former choice of words is clearly a modernist term.
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I’m not sure why you object to the term “neurotic” but we can stick with scrupulous if you prefer. I’ve no objection to that.
dad_o_six said:
According to the Barna Study, less than 8% of your CCD (or whatever you call it now) students (K-Confirmation) will go on to become practicing Catholics themselves. I don’t know why.
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We still call it CCD in my neck of the woods, although what it is called seems not to matter much. I don’t know why so few remain Catholic either, but I remember my own days in CCD well enough to guess that it has something to do with the nearly monomaniacal focus on “God loves you.” without the balacing teaching of the reality of sin and the possibility of Hell. I teach 6th Grade and they get a heavier dose of these topics than I give to my 5 yr old.
dad_o_six said:
We do know that more conservative religions and branches within Christianity and within Catholocism have a higher retention rate.
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I must admit I’m not sure what this means. By “conservative” do you mean “orthodox?” It seems to me that heresy is awaiting both religious conservatives (e.g. SSPX, yes they are heretical) and religious liberals (e.g. LCWR - does anyone doubt their heterodoxy?)
dad_o_six said:
I just want to avoid the millstone.
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At the risk of sounding like a Protestant again, AMEN, my Brother! 😉
 
Maybe it was not your original post and follow ups that I was responding to, but some of the other references along the way, eg that Catholic theologian, Sartre. It seems we are in greater accord than we might think, though a definition of heresy would be necessary for the sidebar conversation. But I’m not really interested in taking the bait. Interesting, but off topic and can only lead to aporia.

My point is something like this: Why would God allow the Blessed Virgin to show the children at Fatima hell? My guess is that God knew that the heresy of modernism was coming, and he wanted to show the children that hell is a very real place with real suffering.

But that’s not what typically goes on. Maybe you’re unafraid to broach the topic, but the vast majority of “Faith Formation” classes and teachers would prefer to steer clear and preach the “God is Love” version of catechism. I have been in a missionary Catholic Mass in which the priest said that hell is a “state of mind.” There are plenty who would deny that hell is a real, physical place. This would be a modernist heresy. Not my job to call that priest a heretic (above my pay grade), but the logic is fairly clear.

At the same time, it makes a certain amount of sense for mature and intelligent adults to speak of hell as a “state of mind.” This is an abstract concept that in many ways conforms more closely to the phenomenon that we might associate with hell. But this is really above the heads of children. It’s really like asking a 7 year old to do Algebra; he’s just not ready for that level of abstraction. Children are in the concrete operational stage, and it’s best to speak to them in concrete terms. Hell is a real physical place. “Hell is jail for dead people, and they can never leave.” That makes sense to a kid. Now, you might be able to give them some notion of an existential version of hell, for a minute, but they won’t remember it. And it will have no impact on how they live their lives.

(I should note that I wasn’t sure if hell should be capitalized or not. Frankly, I didn’t want to give it the power of a capitalization. However, it occurs to me that if Hell is the proper name of a real physical place, then it should be capitalized, like Germany or China.)
 
The approach taken was very mature and easy for a young child to understand. I am very happy with how this lesson was delivered 😃
 
dad_o_six said:
Maybe it was not your original post and follow ups that I was responding to, but some of the other references along the way, eg that Catholic theologian, Sartre. It seems we are in greater accord than we might think, though a definition of heresy would be necessary for the sidebar conversation. But I’m not really interested in taking the bait. Interesting, but off topic and can only lead to aporia.

My point is something like this: Why would God allow the Blessed Virgin to show the children at Fatima hell? My guess is that God knew that the heresy of modernism was coming, and he wanted to show the children that hell is a very real place with real suffering.

But that’s not what typically goes on. Maybe you’re unafraid to broach the topic, but the vast majority of “Faith Formation” classes and teachers would prefer to steer clear and preach the “God is Love” version of catechism. I have been in a missionary Catholic Mass in which the priest said that hell is a “state of mind.” There are plenty who would deny that hell is a real, physical place. This would be a modernist heresy. Not my job to call that priest a heretic (above my pay grade), but the logic is fairly clear.

At the same time, it makes a certain amount of sense for mature and intelligent adults to speak of hell as a “state of mind.” This is an abstract concept that in many ways conforms more closely to the phenomenon that we might associate with hell. But this is really above the heads of children. It’s really like asking a 7 year old to do Algebra; he’s just not ready for that level of abstraction. Children are in the concrete operational stage, and it’s best to speak to them in concrete terms. Hell is a real physical place. “Hell is jail for dead people, and they can never leave.” That makes sense to a kid. Now, you might be able to give them some notion of an existential version of hell, for a minute, but they won’t remember it. And it will have no impact on how they live their lives.

(I should note that I wasn’t sure if hell should be capitalized or not. Frankly, I didn’t want to give it the power of a capitalization. However, it occurs to me that if Hell is the proper name of a real physical place, then it should be capitalized, like Germany or China.)
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It seems we largely agree with each other. God bless.
 
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